Commercial Luger Markings

rec48 · 07-09-2014, 02:20 PM

I have a Commercial DMW Luger. On the front of frame is a four digit serial number, below it GERMANY, under the GERMANY is a lower case k in cursive. What does this k mean? I can send photos. Thank You

DavidJayUden · 07-09-2014, 03:00 PM

Welcome aboard. .30 or 9mm?
Photos are good.
The k is a production suffix, as in once they reached the end of 5 digits with no letter, then came 00001 up thru 5 digits (99999) followed by "a", etc, etc, etc, up to your gun in the "k" block.
Some of the book guys can be more specific, but that is a generic answer.
dju

ithacaartist · 07-09-2014, 03:06 PM

David is correct. You should also know that the letter suffix is part of the gun's serial number, so yours would be xxxxk. We await pics!

rec48 · 07-09-2014, 06:33 PM

Hope these pictures get through. I have many more if I could send to an email address as attachments. The Caliber is 7.65. I would like to learn more about my Luger, would like to sell it.
Thank You,
Dick

DavidJayUden · 07-09-2014, 11:33 PM

D:
I'm assuming that we are seeing a well oiled original finish, but if your intent is to sell, post some good photos in the "for sale" section below.
Good luck.
dju

ithacaartist · 07-10-2014, 03:03 AM

David is correct, but you should also know that posting in the for sale section mandates a specific price. If we see more pics, the community can do an appraisal, then have a go at offering it in the WTS. The interested membership will figure out what you have and also help you establish a price that is would be fair. You must do your part by posting pics for this purpose.

There's a "sticky" here somewhere about how to take these documentary shots, but the short list is: 1) Natural light on an overcast day or in the shade--no flash 2) High resolution 3) tripod and self timer to eliminate all camera motion. As far as what to take, that's easy--just about everything: Full left, right, top, back, and front; then every part that has one, closeup of its marking(s). It's nice to have shots of the gun stripped down, to show the numbered parts within, such as the firing pin, and so we can see the inside of the frame.You don't have to do all of them all at once, and you have posted three relatively important ones already!

So far, it appears to be what is called an "alphabet commercial" which was imported into the US between the wars. If the pistol is nice condition, all original, and serial number matching, that would be great, and its liquidation would reward you the most.

rec48 · 07-10-2014, 01:24 PM

Thanks for the reply, yes I did brush a bit of WD40 on the finish so the markings would show better.

DavidJayUden · 07-10-2014, 02:36 PM

Anyone else think that the 8 on the barrel looks to be up-side-down?
dju

John Sabato · 07-10-2014, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Anyone else think that the 8 on the barrel looks to be up-side-down?
dju

Definitely David. An easy thing to happen when the number is nearly symmetrical and is stamped by hand. I am sure a lot of 6's and 9's were also stamped upside accidently down during the production process. It probably didn't make any difference with the ZERO's...

rhuff · 07-10-2014, 05:53 PM

The "8" on the frame also looks upside down to me. At least the fella doing it was consistent.

Ben M. · 07-11-2014, 12:02 PM

too much time in a beer garden that weekend

rec48 · 07-11-2014, 05:44 PM

More photos of my DMW, any help identifying what it is and possible value.
Thank You,
Dick

DavidJayUden · 07-11-2014, 06:41 PM

Was it made w/o stock lug or has it been ground off?
dju

rec48 · 07-11-2014, 08:03 PM

It has been filed or ground off. Picture attached.

DavidJayUden · 07-11-2014, 08:52 PM

You know, that would have been nice to include in the original description.
As to value, of course it is worth as much or as little as you can get for it, but I'd ballpark it at about $500 give or take $100.
dju

ithacaartist · 07-11-2014, 09:35 PM

Dick, you may be saying to yourself right now, "I thought it would be worth more than that!" However, the ground-off lug relegates it to the "shooter" category. Its other deficiency/barrier to collectibility is the mismatched breech block. One could have the stock lug restored, at a cost of around $400, and search for another original breech block numbered 97, to restore its configuration. But that would not restore its originality, which is gone forever. If you sell it privately, you may reap more than the ballpark max, but maybe not. If it had not experienced these things and were original and matching, it might have been worth closer to a fat thousand. Post WWII, U.S. firearms regulations served to confuse many into grinding stock lugs from their Lugers, so your pistol is very likely a member of that little club. One aspect of the situation you will find encouraging is that it will definitely be desired by someone, and it should be a good shooter and quite accurate. There may be a few more estimates of value that trickle into this thread, but, once again, David is on the mark with the ballpark. Commercial examples generally bring less than military-proofed ones, and the .30 Luger caliber is problematic mostly because of the relative difficulty obtaining reasonably priced ammo for it--or brass, if you're a reloader; it would have been worth a bit more if it were 9mm. It does not happen to be any kind of distinctive or rare example, so no help for the value in this respect.

Stay tuned, as there may be more input to the thread. Then, by all means, post it up here on the site for sale, at the price you wish. I'd be surprised if no one grabs it, if your price makes sense. After that, there's always Gunbroker or any of the myriad firearms auction/classified sites. Best of luck!

MFC · 07-13-2014, 12:12 AM

Hi Dick,
As stated above, your Luger is classified as a DWM Alphabet Commercial. S# 8397k was manufactured in the latter part of 1922.

Just to clarify...
Commercial serial numbers started at '1' and would have gone up to 6 digits with no suffixes (commercial style numbering does not contain suffixes). To avoid having to use 6 digits, commercial numbering was switched at S#92000 to the corresponding military style S#2000i and continued into the 'z' suffix. The commercial style was used from the year 1900, at the beginning of production, until 1921. The switch to the military style in 1921 continued until 1942. If the commercial serial number sequence had not been switched to the military style, commercial serial numbers would have gone past S#250000.

The military style numbering system started at '1 thru 9999' or '1 thru 10000' with no suffix, then 1a, 2a etc... each block or suffix containing 10000 units.

rec48 · 07-13-2014, 03:10 PM

Thanks for the information, greatly appreciated.
Dick

07-09-2014, 02:20 PM	#1
rec48 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Western Washington Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Commercial Luger Markings I have a Commercial DMW Luger. On the front of frame is a four digit serial number, below it GERMANY, under the GERMANY is a lower case k in cursive. What does this k mean? I can send photos. Thank You

07-09-2014, 03:06 PM	#3
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	David is correct. You should also know that the letter suffix is part of the gun's serial number, so yours would be xxxxk. We await pics! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

07-09-2014, 06:33 PM	#4
rec48 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Western Washington Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Commercial Luger Markings Hope these pictures get through. I have many more if I could send to an email address as attachments. The Caliber is 7.65. I would like to learn more about my Luger, would like to sell it. Thank You, Dick Attached Thumbnails

07-10-2014, 03:03 AM	#6
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	David is correct, but you should also know that posting in the for sale section mandates a specific price. If we see more pics, the community can do an appraisal, then have a go at offering it in the WTS. The interested membership will figure out what you have and also help you establish a price that is would be fair. You must do your part by posting pics for this purpose. There's a "sticky" here somewhere about how to take these documentary shots, but the short list is: 1) Natural light on an overcast day or in the shade--no flash 2) High resolution 3) tripod and self timer to eliminate all camera motion. As far as what to take, that's easy--just about everything: Full left, right, top, back, and front; then every part that has one, closeup of its marking(s). It's nice to have shots of the gun stripped down, to show the numbered parts within, such as the firing pin, and so we can see the inside of the frame.You don't have to do all of them all at once, and you have posted three relatively important ones already! So far, it appears to be what is called an "alphabet commercial" which was imported into the US between the wars. If the pistol is nice condition, all original, and serial number matching, that would be great, and its liquidation would reward you the most. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

07-11-2014, 05:44 PM	#12
rec48 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Western Washington Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More Photos More photos of my DMW, any help identifying what it is and possible value. Thank You, Dick Attached Thumbnails

07-09-2014, 03:00 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Welcome aboard. .30 or 9mm? Photos are good. The k is a production suffix, as in once they reached the end of 5 digits with no letter, then came 00001 up thru 5 digits (99999) followed by "a", etc, etc, etc, up to your gun in the "k" block. Some of the book guys can be more specific, but that is a generic answer. dju

07-09-2014, 11:33 PM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	D: I'm assuming that we are seeing a well oiled original finish, but if your intent is to sell, post some good photos in the "for sale" section below. Good luck. dju

07-10-2014, 01:24 PM	#7
rec48 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Western Washington Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the reply, yes I did brush a bit of WD40 on the finish so the markings would show better.

07-10-2014, 02:36 PM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Anyone else think that the 8 on the barrel looks to be up-side-down? dju

07-10-2014, 05:53 PM	#10
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	The "8" on the frame also looks upside down to me. At least the fella doing it was consistent.

07-11-2014, 12:02 PM	#11
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 488 Thanks: 90 Thanked 123 Times in 83 Posts	too much time in a beer garden that weekend

07-11-2014, 06:41 PM	#13
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Was it made w/o stock lug or has it been ground off? dju

07-11-2014, 08:03 PM	#14
rec48 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Western Washington Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Stock lug It has been filed or ground off. Picture attached. Attached Thumbnails

07-11-2014, 08:52 PM	#15
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	You know, that would have been nice to include in the original description. As to value, of course it is worth as much or as little as you can get for it, but I'd ballpark it at about $500 give or take $100. dju

07-11-2014, 09:35 PM	#16
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	Dick, you may be saying to yourself right now, "I thought it would be worth more than that!" However, the ground-off lug relegates it to the "shooter" category. Its other deficiency/barrier to collectibility is the mismatched breech block. One could have the stock lug restored, at a cost of around $400, and search for another original breech block numbered 97, to restore its configuration. But that would not restore its originality, which is gone forever. If you sell it privately, you may reap more than the ballpark max, but maybe not. If it had not experienced these things and were original and matching, it might have been worth closer to a fat thousand. Post WWII, U.S. firearms regulations served to confuse many into grinding stock lugs from their Lugers, so your pistol is very likely a member of that little club. One aspect of the situation you will find encouraging is that it will definitely be desired by someone, and it should be a good shooter and quite accurate. There may be a few more estimates of value that trickle into this thread, but, once again, David is on the mark with the ballpark. Commercial examples generally bring less than military-proofed ones, and the .30 Luger caliber is problematic mostly because of the relative difficulty obtaining reasonably priced ammo for it--or brass, if you're a reloader; it would have been worth a bit more if it were 9mm. It does not happen to be any kind of distinctive or rare example, so no help for the value in this respect. Stay tuned, as there may be more input to the thread. Then, by all means, post it up here on the site for sale, at the price you wish. I'd be surprised if no one grabs it, if your price makes sense. After that, there's always Gunbroker or any of the myriad firearms auction/classified sites. Best of luck! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

07-13-2014, 12:12 AM	#17
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi Dick, As stated above, your Luger is classified as a DWM Alphabet Commercial. S# 8397k was manufactured in the latter part of 1922. Just to clarify... Commercial serial numbers started at '1' and would have gone up to 6 digits with no suffixes (commercial style numbering does not contain suffixes). To avoid having to use 6 digits, commercial numbering was switched at S#92000 to the corresponding military style S#2000i and continued into the 'z' suffix. The commercial style was used from the year 1900, at the beginning of production, until 1921. The switch to the military style in 1921 continued until 1942. If the commercial serial number sequence had not been switched to the military style, commercial serial numbers would have gone past S#250000. The military style numbering system started at '1 thru 9999' or '1 thru 10000' with no suffix, then 1a, 2a etc... each block or suffix containing 10000 units. __________________ Mike C. Last edited by MFC; 07-13-2014 at 01:44 AM.

07-13-2014, 03:10 PM	#18
rec48 User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Western Washington Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the information, greatly appreciated. Dick