Aircrew Pistols

Aaron · 04-16-2002, 02:02 PM

The previous discussion about the Femaru carried by German pilots in WWII encourages me to ask the members of the forum the following questions: I am putting together an exhibit of WWII aircrew pistols carried in WWII by pilots of various countries. For Germany I have a very nice complete Femaru rig. For Britain I have an RAF marked Enfield pistol. For the US I have a beautiful 1911A1 in a shoulder holster which I obtained from my friend, a B-24 pilot. He carried it on many missions, but only test fired two cartridges from it. How I got his pistol is a great story, and if anyone is interested, I will relate it later. I am working on a USN S&W pilot's rig. Now my problem is that I cannot find any reference to pistols carried by Japanese, Italian, or Russian aircrews. Does anyone have any information on these three categories?

tom · 04-16-2002, 02:34 PM

The Italians used Beretta m1934 mostly with a sprinkling of others such as Galesenti (Sp?); Russians used Nangant revolvers mostly and a sprinkling of Tok 38s; Japanese used the small Browning M1910 contract pieces, M26 revolvers that had snub noses and a few Hamada.

I presume your Enfield is the snub nose variety; most air crew carried that version as crew station in Spit and Hurricaine was/is "intimate"..

Hope this helps,

Tom

John Sabato · 04-16-2002, 04:09 PM

of the 1911A1 and shoulder holster, many on this forum enjoy such historic tales...

regards,

John Sabato

Aaron · 04-16-2002, 08:47 PM

Yes, my Enfield is a snub nose type. As for the 1911A1, I was browsing in a large local gunshop, when I noticed an elderly gentleman and his wife showing a gun over the counter to one of the employees. The couple was standing with their backs to me, but I could clearly hear the conversation, because as a retired naval officer I have good hearing (not so with my Marine Corps buddies). The old man was saying he didn't want to sell the gun, as he carried it on all of his B-24 missions, but he was curious as to its value. He also said he didn't have any children or relatives to pass it on to. The employee told him it was worth $650 to $700, and they went on talking, so I left the store. I kind of hung around the parking lot, spending a few minutes walking my old whippet, intending to strike up a conversation with the couple when they came out. Finally they emerged from the store, and my jaw dropped when I recognized the old man as a flying pal of mine for the last 20 years! We greeted each other warmly, and he told me all about how he was issued the weapon, fired it twice, then carried it all through the war. The condition was 99%, showing only minute holster wear. I asked him if he would consider placing the gun in the possession of a collector, telling him that it would go into a museum exhibit with a history of its owner. He turned white, and told me he was frightened to sell it, since it was issued to him and it could be traced back and get him in trouble! As a matter of fact, for 57 years he had worried over it, and many times was on the brink of turning it in to the federal government! It took me the better part of an hour to convince him that no records exist connecting him to the weapon, and that he could freely and legally dispose of it. Now I have the gun and we are compiling documents and photos to go along with it. Just goes to show that if you know any WWII veterans you should always ask them about their war souvenirs. It just never occurred to me that a bomber pilot would still have his original collectible pistol!

Steve · 04-17-2002, 02:33 AM

I remember reading in one of the magazines in the late 1960's or early 1970's that the Germain aircrews liked the Astra model 600. I wish I could be more specific on the magazine but it was a while ago.

04-17-2002, 08:45 AM

Aaron, As far as I know, WW2 German officer pilots had to purchase their own pistols, so just about anything is possible. The enlisted crewmen were pimarily issued non-German made 32s, as the chances of them having to use them in anger were slim. I've had Femarus, FN22 & CZ27 show up in Luftwaffe marked holsters. Tom h

john · 04-19-2002, 11:18 AM

I agree with many WW2 German aircrew were issued .32 calibre autos. I remember many years ago meeting an ex Luftwaffe pilot who told me his Luger was withdrawn from issue in 1940 and replaced with a PP Walther. Apparently the Lugers were needed for issue to ground troops.

I also aware of a Stuka pilot who came down in North Africa (1941) and was found in possession of an Astra "Ruby" in .32, never met the pilot, did meet the bloke who relieved him of his little spanish pistol!

04-16-2002, 02:02 PM	#1
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Aircrew Pistols The previous discussion about the Femaru carried by German pilots in WWII encourages me to ask the members of the forum the following questions: I am putting together an exhibit of WWII aircrew pistols carried in WWII by pilots of various countries. For Germany I have a very nice complete Femaru rig. For Britain I have an RAF marked Enfield pistol. For the US I have a beautiful 1911A1 in a shoulder holster which I obtained from my friend, a B-24 pilot. He carried it on many missions, but only test fired two cartridges from it. How I got his pistol is a great story, and if anyone is interested, I will relate it later. I am working on a USN S&W pilot's rig. Now my problem is that I cannot find any reference to pistols carried by Japanese, Italian, or Russian aircrews. Does anyone have any information on these three categories?

04-16-2002, 02:34 PM	#2
tom User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 269 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Aircrew Pistols The Italians used Beretta m1934 mostly with a sprinkling of others such as Galesenti (Sp?); Russians used Nangant revolvers mostly and a sprinkling of Tok 38s; Japanese used the small Browning M1910 contract pieces, M26 revolvers that had snub noses and a few Hamada. I presume your Enfield is the snub nose variety; most air crew carried that version as crew station in Spit and Hurricaine was/is "intimate".. Hope this helps, Tom

04-16-2002, 04:09 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Yes, please relate the story on your acquisition of the 1911A1 and shoulder holster, many on this forum enjoy such historic tales... regards, John Sabato

04-16-2002, 08:47 PM	#4
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Yes, please relate the story on your acquisiti Yes, my Enfield is a snub nose type. As for the 1911A1, I was browsing in a large local gunshop, when I noticed an elderly gentleman and his wife showing a gun over the counter to one of the employees. The couple was standing with their backs to me, but I could clearly hear the conversation, because as a retired naval officer I have good hearing (not so with my Marine Corps buddies). The old man was saying he didn't want to sell the gun, as he carried it on all of his B-24 missions, but he was curious as to its value. He also said he didn't have any children or relatives to pass it on to. The employee told him it was worth $650 to $700, and they went on talking, so I left the store. I kind of hung around the parking lot, spending a few minutes walking my old whippet, intending to strike up a conversation with the couple when they came out. Finally they emerged from the store, and my jaw dropped when I recognized the old man as a flying pal of mine for the last 20 years! We greeted each other warmly, and he told me all about how he was issued the weapon, fired it twice, then carried it all through the war. The condition was 99%, showing only minute holster wear. I asked him if he would consider placing the gun in the possession of a collector, telling him that it would go into a museum exhibit with a history of its owner. He turned white, and told me he was frightened to sell it, since it was issued to him and it could be traced back and get him in trouble! As a matter of fact, for 57 years he had worried over it, and many times was on the brink of turning it in to the federal government! It took me the better part of an hour to convince him that no records exist connecting him to the weapon, and that he could freely and legally dispose of it. Now I have the gun and we are compiling documents and photos to go along with it. Just goes to show that if you know any WWII veterans you should always ask them about their war souvenirs. It just never occurred to me that a bomber pilot would still have his original collectible pistol!

04-17-2002, 02:33 AM	#5
Steve User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 200 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Aircrew Pistols I remember reading in one of the magazines in the late 1960's or early 1970's that the Germain aircrews liked the Astra model 600. I wish I could be more specific on the magazine but it was a while ago.

04-17-2002, 08:45 AM	#6
Tom Heller Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Yes, please relate the story on your acquisiti Aaron, As far as I know, WW2 German officer pilots had to purchase their own pistols, so just about anything is possible. The enlisted crewmen were pimarily issued non-German made 32s, as the chances of them having to use them in anger were slim. I've had Femarus, FN22 & CZ27 show up in Luftwaffe marked holsters. Tom h

04-19-2002, 11:18 AM	#7
john User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Aircrew Pistols I agree with many WW2 German aircrew were issued .32 calibre autos. I remember many years ago meeting an ex Luftwaffe pilot who told me his Luger was withdrawn from issue in 1940 and replaced with a PP Walther. Apparently the Lugers were needed for issue to ground troops. I also aware of a Stuka pilot who came down in North Africa (1941) and was found in possession of an Astra "Ruby" in .32, never met the pilot, did meet the bloke who relieved him of his little spanish pistol!