RE: firing pin spring retainer

04-25-2002, 11:12 PM

Howdy.

I don't have anything to check head space with, but i do have a few of the wolf 115 fmj's I was using when my retainer broke. I dropped one of the wolfs into my chamber and tried to close the action on it. The toggle will not fully seat and bring the breechblock all the way to the chamber face. I have no calipers, but I am estimating the distance between the breechblock face and the chamber face to be ~1/32 of an inch.

Sooooooooo, not knowing a whole lot about headspace requirements, can I assume that though the breechblock is close enough to the primer to allow the pin to strike it, it is still far enough away to allow for the damage my pistol has sustained? I'm thinking the case was allowed to pop back from the chamber into my pin and BB possibly causing the damage to my retainer?

Or maybe it's been a long day and my brain is tired.

Terrapin-

Johnny Peppers · 04-26-2002, 12:17 AM

The extractor should hold the cartridge firmly against the breech face with the toggle locked in battery. This was the way General Hatcher explained firing .380ACP in a Luger in his book "Hatcher's Notebook". Even though there is more than .07 inch excessive headspace using the .380 cartridge, it still fires normally due to the extractor holding the cartridge in place against the breech face. The firing pin may have been fluted to allow excess gas to escape due to a blown or pierced primer, but where was the gas to escape to? The firing pin is fluted on only three sides and the only place for the gas to escape is out the slot in the left side of the breechblock, but the left side of the firing pin is the only side without a flute. The Luger was never designed to fire a cartridge by dropping it in the chamber, but rather by the cartridge being fed out of a magazine.

I don't think much information will be gained from dropping a cartridge in the chamber and then letting the breechblock down on it. Remove the firing pin and the extractor, put a cartridge in the chamber, bring the breechblock into locked position, and see if there is then any sign of excessive headspace. Just my guess, but I tend to believe that the firing pin spring retainer just broke as parts are prone to do after much use rather than an excessive headspace condition. Even breechblocks have been known to crack even though everything appeared normal. Fatigue happens.

Orv Reichert · 04-26-2002, 03:16 PM

The distance between the face of the bolt and the head of the cartridge is the 'headspace'.

Remove the FP and Extractor. with a round fully inserted into the chamber, measure the space between the bolt face and the cartridge. [use a feeler gauge] Do not slam the bolt..drop it gently..then, measure.

Orv Reichert

04-26-2002, 03:16 PM

nada.....zilch......zippo

Johnny Peppers · 04-26-2002, 06:00 PM

nada...zilch...zippo what?

04-26-2002, 07:53 PM

Welp, it's my understanding that EOM = end of message, which I typed at the end of my thank you to you in the subject header.

The nada, zilch, zippo made it into the message area out of boredom on my part and the assumption no one would actually click on my reply once they saw EOM at the end of the subject line.

=)

Thanks again for your reply.

Terrapin

04-25-2002, 11:12 PM	#1
terrapin Guest Posts: n/a	RE: firing pin spring retainer Howdy. I don't have anything to check head space with, but i do have a few of the wolf 115 fmj's I was using when my retainer broke. I dropped one of the wolfs into my chamber and tried to close the action on it. The toggle will not fully seat and bring the breechblock all the way to the chamber face. I have no calipers, but I am estimating the distance between the breechblock face and the chamber face to be ~1/32 of an inch. Sooooooooo, not knowing a whole lot about headspace requirements, can I assume that though the breechblock is close enough to the primer to allow the pin to strike it, it is still far enough away to allow for the damage my pistol has sustained? I'm thinking the case was allowed to pop back from the chamber into my pin and BB possibly causing the damage to my retainer? Or maybe it's been a long day and my brain is tired. Terrapin-

04-26-2002, 12:17 AM	#2
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: RE: firing pin spring retainer The extractor should hold the cartridge firmly against the breech face with the toggle locked in battery. This was the way General Hatcher explained firing .380ACP in a Luger in his book "Hatcher's Notebook". Even though there is more than .07 inch excessive headspace using the .380 cartridge, it still fires normally due to the extractor holding the cartridge in place against the breech face. The firing pin may have been fluted to allow excess gas to escape due to a blown or pierced primer, but where was the gas to escape to? The firing pin is fluted on only three sides and the only place for the gas to escape is out the slot in the left side of the breechblock, but the left side of the firing pin is the only side without a flute. The Luger was never designed to fire a cartridge by dropping it in the chamber, but rather by the cartridge being fed out of a magazine. I don't think much information will be gained from dropping a cartridge in the chamber and then letting the breechblock down on it. Remove the firing pin and the extractor, put a cartridge in the chamber, bring the breechblock into locked position, and see if there is then any sign of excessive headspace. Just my guess, but I tend to believe that the firing pin spring retainer just broke as parts are prone to do after much use rather than an excessive headspace condition. Even breechblocks have been known to crack even though everything appeared normal. Fatigue happens.

04-26-2002, 03:16 PM	#3
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Headspacing The distance between the face of the bolt and the head of the cartridge is the 'headspace'. Remove the FP and Extractor. with a round fully inserted into the chamber, measure the space between the bolt face and the cartridge. [use a feeler gauge] Do not slam the bolt..drop it gently..then, measure. Orv Reichert

04-26-2002, 03:16 PM	#4
Terrapin Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks for your' reply (EOM) nada.....zilch......zippo

04-26-2002, 06:00 PM	#5
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Thanks for your' reply nada...zilch...zippo what?

04-26-2002, 07:53 PM	#6
Terrapin Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Thanks for your' reply Welp, it's my understanding that EOM = end of message, which I typed at the end of my thank you to you in the subject header. The nada, zilch, zippo made it into the message area out of boredom on my part and the assumption no one would actually click on my reply once they saw EOM at the end of the subject line. =) Thanks again for your reply. Terrapin