1913 Stock Lug Appearance~

[cirelaw]

I noticed I have two Erfurt 1913 P08 with and without a stock lug. Was this the only change?

[DonVoigt]

Eric,
there is a sticky or thread on this question- either here or the other luger forum, with serial numbers around the change and IIRC it shows overlap as expected.

[cirelaw]

Thank You~

[Sergio Natali]

Erik

I've found this thread on Jan Still's forum:

04-19-2015, 12:32 PM #1 Spacecoast's Avatar Spacecoast Spacecoast is online now
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Default 1913 Erfurt stock lug and hold open transitions
The 1913 Erfurt Luger (~23,000 total production) is interesting from the standpoint that it was produced in a transition period for both the magazine hold open and stock lug features, both of which were made "standard equipment" from the factory during 1913. The hold open had been standard on earlier Lugers but dropped several years earlier to cut cost. Some (apparently most) guns that started off without a hold open were upgraded afterward by the factory with a small external proof on the right side of the frame next the end of the pin, above and behind the trigger.

This resulted in four valid configurations during the year:
No stock lug, without hold open
No stock lug, added hold open with external proof
No stock lug, hold open installed when new
With stock lug and hold open when new

Gortz and Sturgess don't seem to discuss much about these transition points in production. Jan C. Still, in Central Powers Pistols (p.78), mentions that the stock lug started around serial number 6000a (between 3980a and 7825a) but does not discuss the serial number timing of the hold open, which was initiated by a May 6, 1913 directive. John Walter indicates that the stock lug was made standard on guns delivered after August 4, 1913, but does not discuss serial numbers.

I have scanned as many 1913 Erfurts as I can readily find in the books I own or which have been offered for sale recently or otherwise pictured online, and have constructed the table below to try and pin down a little more precisely when the transitions occurred serial number-wise. Hopefully this will be useful to future collectors, as there are from time to time guns offered that are not "right", such as the 1912 Erfurt with stock lug discussed in another thread.

No stock lug or hold open No stock lug, hold open added later No stock lug, hold open from factory Both stock lug and hold open from factory
1754 1229 373a 5609a
7161 1699 842a 895a 6622a 6640a
3196 976a 6912a
3297 1009a 7038a
5460 1873a 7381a 7387a
7783 2309a 7527a
7834 2533a 2539a 7822a
8283 3526a 3540a 8413a
8835 3980a 9327a
9454 4215a 9502a 9707a
9645 4857a 364b
4918a 1232b 1642b
2447b 2456b

So far, there are only two guns (#1754 and #7161) that are lacking both the hold open and stock lug. The hold open transition (May 1913) can be pinned down to a range of about 728 guns as of 7/28/15 between 9645 and 373a. The addition of the stock lug appears to have occurred somewhere between 4918a and 5609a (a range of 691 guns), assuming it was a clean transition.

I would love to be able to narrow down these ranges even further. Please feel free to contribute information and/or pictures that I can use to update these lists.

Current population range of distinct variations (assuming 23,000 guns total):

> No stock lug, none or added hold open - 9,645 to 10,372 guns
> No stock lug, hold open from factory - 4,545 to 5,964 guns
> Stock lug and hold open from factory - 7,392 to 8,082 guns
Last edited by Spacecoast; 06-12-2016 at 08:48 AM. Reason: Added 1873a and 7381a
My avatar is the Bulgarian word for "Fire", as seen on my 1908 Bulgarian Contract DWM Luger. Pronounced "Oh-gun" in Bulgaria.

Looking for a genuine 1908 Bulgarian contract Luger magazine (early DWM P.08) with a C suffix. For an example, see http://luger.gunboards.com/attachmen...3&d=1414271032 (on the right).

[cirelaw]

Sergio, Thanks for sharing that! Good lugers and Great Friends Abound!! Also both are hold opens!

[spacecoast]

Eric -

To answer your question a bit more directly, the stock lug was added somewhere between s/n 4918a and 5609a. From time to time I look for more guns to help narrow down the transition range for both this and the hold open transitions. Any assistance by forum members would be greatly appreciated.

I think the 1913 Erfurt is a fascinating study due to the transitions going on at this time in Luger configurations.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...en-transitions

Mark

[cirelaw]

Awesome, Membership Has Its Privaleges! PS both have hold opens!

[Kiwi Mark]

Hi, My 1913 Enfurt has hold open and stock lug, serial number 8244a which does not help you narrow down the transition

[cirelaw]

I just found another~

[jolyon39]

Thanks for this thread

My 1913 is serial number 512 ....................... I thought the Hold Open was faulty, now I know otherwise