OT: What is "Galling?"

Don · 04-29-2002, 10:44 AM

You guys were nice enough the other day to give me some feedback on lubricants for my new stainless pistol (a Sig 226 S). The term "galling" came up in that thread, and on the labels of some of the products I've looked at. Just what is "galling?" Thanks again.

John Sabato · 04-29-2002, 11:38 AM

abrasion caused by improper lubrication... This term is commonly used to describe friction damage on stainless steel guns.

I have owned an original TDE .44 caliber AutoMag pistol since the early 1970's.

The lubricant that was supplied with that pistol was the consistency of heavy clear syrup and I have read since then that it was really STP motor oil treatment... The instructions said that the use of any other lubricant would void the warranty... Not an issue since all of the companies that ever manufactured the AutoMag pistol promptly went out of business...

I would mix up a batch of 25/75% STP and a good gun oil like Hoppe's and give that a try. Don't get it on the surfaces where you hold the pistol however because it is "sliprier than wet snot on a door knob" and could cause disastrous results from recoil when you drop the pistol upon firing

Seriously... you only need a couple of drops of the mixture on the moving parts that touch each other like the slide rails...

Let me know how it works out... I haven't fired that old cannon in over 15 years...

regards,

John Sabato

Ron Wood · 04-29-2002, 12:30 PM

John - The expression for us country kids was "slipperier than cow slobbers on a glass door knob". And most old timers know that the gun lubricant STOS is an acronym for "slipperier than owl..uh..stuff".

Don · 04-29-2002, 12:37 PM

Thanks, John. I have been using a Breakfree product, "Lubricant- Preservative," or a similar name. It is the same asBreakfree CLP, but without the cleaning ingredients, and the label says it was developed for SS autos and machine guns. (Sig recommended Breakfree or a Kleen Bore product, TW-25.) The gun is brand new, and I've just fired 2-3 boxes of ammo in it. Last night I noticed some discoloration -in the grooves in the frame that carry the slide --a darker gray color. Didn't know if that was damage, "galling," or just the normal look of a stainless gun where there is metal-to-metal contact. Thanks again, guys.

John Sabato · 04-29-2002, 12:37 PM

John Sabato · 04-29-2002, 12:54 PM

residue. SS will not remain bright in use. The galling I have seen is more like deep scratches from movement of one part against another... I would describe it like the kind of scratches you would get if you put sand in the action and worked it a few times...

I don't think what you have described is anything to worry about. If the Breakfree product is recommended for SS guns, then by all means use it. Try my formula if you are not satisfied with the storebought stuff...

-John

-John

Don · 04-29-2002, 01:00 PM

I get it now, yeah, I was way "over-reacting," worrying that I had galling. Now that I have an explanation, I'm sure that what I'm seeing is the normal wear in process. I'm used to that on blued guns, where you see a little white metal appearing over time. Thanks again, guys!

Marvin · 04-29-2002, 01:18 PM

This is a good thread about galling, and I am glad you brought up the subject.

I am an advocate of the synthetic lubricants like the grease that Neil has for sale. Just a small amount of this will stop any galling effects and you will protect the metal to metal contact. Firearms are like an auto engine; the bearings on the crankshaft are metal, the oil in the engine keeps the rods and crankshaft for making any contact. When you lose oil pressure, there is metal to metal contact and you know what happens then.

A pistol slide and moving parts are sort of the same way; keep metal to metal contact to a minumum. With some parts, oil works great, where you have sliding contact, a light coating of grease is advisable. When yo have contact where the parts create a lot of pressure, you need a high pressure lubricant so it will not be "squeezed" out from the two surfaces.

A very economical lubricant is the high pressure wheel bearing lubrican used in your automobile. It works great and is cheap!

I like to shoot my M1A rifle and I like the sythetic lubricants on the bolt and operating surfaces and it has worked for me since the 1970s.

Marvin

AMMOMAN

Johnny Peppers · 04-29-2002, 04:26 PM

Galling is common to stainless steel and aluminum. Neither like to work against themselves, and if the friction is great enough the metals will adhere to each other to the point that they will either lock together tightly or pull pieces of metal out of the opposing piece. This is very common in stainless steel or aluminum threaded pipe if not used with a high grade lubricant.

John Sabato · 04-29-2002, 05:06 PM

But don't think I will exercise the old girl too much. and I am pretty sure that the address line on mine is "El Monte"

You are right, They are one heck of a pistol.

In my Combat Pistol Team days, some 26 years ago, I was able to put three consecutive rounds on a piece of white typing paper at a measured 150 yards! Even I couldn't believe my eyes... It may have been a 9 inch group, but for a 6 inch pistol without a shoulder stock it was (IS) amazing...

regards,

John

Ron Wood · 04-29-2002, 06:09 PM

That's what I would have said if I knew what I was talking about.

04-29-2002, 09:41 PM

Alloys, and most any application of like metals in high pressure applications.

The condition is so bad that Class #1 or very close fitting threads and clearances on moving parts is "Not Recommended" fot these alloys.

Even Class #2 thread fits are recomended only with the use of plenty lubrication and under very clean conditions. As an example of the tolerance

Class #2 is the fit used for Aircraft quality a Class #3, and #4 are the fit of Farm grade bolts which are exposed to the elements and dirt without other protection and this is for commonly used steels.

ViggoG

04-29-2002, 12:37 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Thanks for the education on viscosity Ron

04-29-2002, 12:54 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	The dark color is probably just ground in powder residue. SS will not remain bright in use. The galling I have seen is more like deep scratches from movement of one part against another... I would describe it like the kind of scratches you would get if you put sand in the action and worked it a few times... I don't think what you have described is anything to worry about. If the Breakfree product is recommended for SS guns, then by all means use it. Try my formula if you are not satisfied with the storebought stuff... -John -John

04-29-2002, 01:00 PM	#7
Don User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: The dark color is probably just ground in powd I get it now, yeah, I was way "over-reacting," worrying that I had galling. Now that I have an explanation, I'm sure that what I'm seeing is the normal wear in process. I'm used to that on blued guns, where you see a little white metal appearing over time. Thanks again, guys!

04-29-2002, 01:18 PM	#8
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: OT: What is "Galling?" This is a good thread about galling, and I am glad you brought up the subject. I am an advocate of the synthetic lubricants like the grease that Neil has for sale. Just a small amount of this will stop any galling effects and you will protect the metal to metal contact. Firearms are like an auto engine; the bearings on the crankshaft are metal, the oil in the engine keeps the rods and crankshaft for making any contact. When you lose oil pressure, there is metal to metal contact and you know what happens then. A pistol slide and moving parts are sort of the same way; keep metal to metal contact to a minumum. With some parts, oil works great, where you have sliding contact, a light coating of grease is advisable. When yo have contact where the parts create a lot of pressure, you need a high pressure lubricant so it will not be "squeezed" out from the two surfaces. A very economical lubricant is the high pressure wheel bearing lubrican used in your automobile. It works great and is cheap! I like to shoot my M1A rifle and I like the sythetic lubricants on the bolt and operating surfaces and it has worked for me since the 1970s. Marvin AMMOMAN

04-29-2002, 04:26 PM	#9
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: OT: What is "Galling?" Galling is common to stainless steel and aluminum. Neither like to work against themselves, and if the friction is great enough the metals will adhere to each other to the point that they will either lock together tightly or pull pieces of metal out of the opposing piece. This is very common in stainless steel or aluminum threaded pipe if not used with a high grade lubricant.

04-29-2002, 10:44 AM	#1
Don User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OT: What is "Galling?" You guys were nice enough the other day to give me some feedback on lubricants for my new stainless pistol (a Sig 226 S). The term "galling" came up in that thread, and on the labels of some of the products I've looked at. Just what is "galling?" Thanks again.

04-29-2002, 11:38 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	[OT] Galling is friction "chatter" abrasion caused by improper lubrication... This term is commonly used to describe friction damage on stainless steel guns. I have owned an original TDE .44 caliber AutoMag pistol since the early 1970's. The lubricant that was supplied with that pistol was the consistency of heavy clear syrup and I have read since then that it was really STP motor oil treatment... The instructions said that the use of any other lubricant would void the warranty... Not an issue since all of the companies that ever manufactured the AutoMag pistol promptly went out of business... I would mix up a batch of 25/75% STP and a good gun oil like Hoppe's and give that a try. Don't get it on the surfaces where you hold the pistol however because it is "sliprier than wet snot on a door knob" and could cause disastrous results from recoil when you drop the pistol upon firing Seriously... you only need a couple of drops of the mixture on the moving parts that touch each other like the slide rails... Let me know how it works out... I haven't fired that old cannon in over 15 years... regards, John Sabato

04-29-2002, 12:30 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Re: [OT] Galling is friction "chatter" John - The expression for us country kids was "slipperier than cow slobbers on a glass door knob". And most old timers know that the gun lubricant STOS is an acronym for "slipperier than owl..uh..stuff".

04-29-2002, 05:06 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I still have a supply of my own handmade brass But don't think I will exercise the old girl too much. and I am pretty sure that the address line on mine is "El Monte" You are right, They are one heck of a pistol. In my Combat Pistol Team days, some 26 years ago, I was able to put three consecutive rounds on a piece of white typing paper at a measured 150 yards! Even I couldn't believe my eyes... It may have been a 9 inch group, but for a 6 inch pistol without a shoulder stock it was (IS) amazing... regards, John

04-29-2002, 06:09 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Well stated Johnny... That's what I would have said if I knew what I was talking about.

04-29-2002, 09:41 PM	#12
Viggo G. Dereng Guest Posts: n/a	Re: OT: "Galling?", Common to all Nickle containin Alloys, and most any application of like metals in high pressure applications. The condition is so bad that Class #1 or very close fitting threads and clearances on moving parts is "Not Recommended" fot these alloys. Even Class #2 thread fits are recomended only with the use of plenty lubrication and under very clean conditions. As an example of the tolerance Class #2 is the fit used for Aircraft quality a Class #3, and #4 are the fit of Farm grade bolts which are exposed to the elements and dirt without other protection and this is for commonly used steels. ViggoG