Soo.. issue: Fires on action release

Rich T · 12-26-2016, 11:46 PM

Happened to me twice. insert mag, ****/ release and POW.

Any advice here?

Rich T · 12-26-2016, 11:47 PM

Hmmm..apparently I can’t say “C O C K”

Jim Mac · 12-27-2016, 12:46 AM

Is the firing pin stuck sticking out?

DonVoigt · 12-27-2016, 01:02 AM

Probably sear engagement problem; could be the sear tab on the striker, the sear bar, or the sear spring.

Or like Jim said, striker stuck.

Tell us more about your specific pistol, model? matching? First time out? Worked ok before?

Otherwise, we'll have to use the Ouija board.

Rich T · 12-27-2016, 08:10 AM

It’s a 1936 S/42- been chasing #33 parts for recently. Turns out the danged trigger don’t match either... so I’m giving up on that.

Pin is retracted.

I have recently repurchased the pistol, after about 3 years. I did not have the issue before. Was not shot a ton by the other owner...maybe 250 rounds he said.

Edward Tinker · 12-27-2016, 09:30 AM

did you take it apart and clean the firing pin and inside of breechblock?

Also, swapping in new parts, even numbered the same is still different parts than left the factory. Each part is liable to be hand-fitted at the factory, so even tho the same number, its not the same parts...

DonVoigt · 12-27-2016, 10:45 AM

Rich,
Take the side plate off and put it back together.
UNLOADED, try the action as you describe- does it hold back the sear?

You can tell by pressing on the sear bar plunger with a stick or something, it should go snap.
While you are pressing, check to make sure the little plunger moves freely.

If the sear contact points are worn, it is more likely to be the sear bar itself in my experience.
Take the sear bar out and clean it and its recess well, could be some junk in there.

If not- keep digging; if so, might be the trigger or side plate/lever fit.

If you have another functioning luger, swap the upper to another frame and try it; and vice-versa.

mrerick · 12-27-2016, 11:32 AM

If the striker is not stuck with the pin exposed in the breech, it's slipping off the sear bar.

This area is complex and hand fit.

Start by checking to see if the little plunger and it's spring at the front of the sear bar is functioning properly. No resistance to being pushed in and springing back out. This is the disconnector. If it's not pushing in properly it could be tripping the sear.

Check ot make sure that the trigger plate is being held flat and solidly against the side of the receiver and frame.

Make sure that the sear is properly seated.

Verify that the sear and the mating surface on the firing pin are sharp and true. Wear or an improper angle or someone's attempt at "improving" the trigger might have made it unsafe.

This work is an area for an experienced Luger gunsmith. Very few regular gunsmiths have ever dealt with the complexity of this trigger system.

kurusu · 12-27-2016, 02:06 PM

And see if the sear return spring is not broken or missing.

Freischütz · 12-27-2016, 03:13 PM

I had this problem and found powder fouling on and in the breachblock caused it. I deliberately let the pistol get filthy to see how much it could stand. When it fired on closing I took it apart. It required about 400 rounds to reach this point. The firing pin and breachblock inside were coated in fouling and partially burned powder. The entire breachblock was sticky. Cleaning solved the problem.

rhuff · 12-27-2016, 03:20 PM

Is the firing pin spring present and correct? Is the firing pin spring retainer locking correctly into the breachblock ?

4 Scale · 12-29-2016, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich T

Pin is retracted.

But something is hitting the primer, at least when the breech closes. Is there a mark on the primer (I would think there must be) and does it match the firing pin tip?

If the firing pin is setting off the primer when the breech closes, then at least part of the problem is failure of the FP to reset. Testing with snap caps should confirm if the FP is reseting or not.

As an example of a reset issue, I once installed a new side plate and trigger lever and found the firing pin would not reset. The culprit was the trigger level was new, and did not have the correct bevel to engage the plunger properly. Filing a bevel on the trigger lever fixed the issue. My point is, you'll have to carefully investigate if the FP is resetting.

K.Wilhelm · 12-29-2016, 11:06 AM

I have had this happen on two different Lugers. Both times swapping to a spare sear bar corrected the issue. Too bad on one of them because it had a beautiful trigger pull before correction, and a terrible one after! Better to be safe, though. WB

4 Scale · 12-29-2016, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K.Wilhelm

it had a beautiful trigger pull before correction, and a terrible one after!WB

Interesting, I have to wonder if the nice trigger pull was due to the sear just barely engaging the firing pin tang, and then with a tiny bit more wear it failed to engage at all.

That you've had two do this makes me want to inspect my shooters to make sure nothing is about to wear away - I do not wish to experience a full auto Luger.

DonVoigt · 12-29-2016, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

Interesting, I have to wonder if the nice trigger pull was due to the sear just barely engaging the firing pin tang, and then with a tiny bit more wear it failed to engage at all.

That you've had two do this makes me want to inspect my shooters to make sure nothing is about to wear away - I do not wish to experience a full auto Luger.

Yes,
that would be the primary reason; or gunk keeping the sear bar from returning to its rest position.

Baring a failure, a light trigger pull is a sign of limited sear engagement; so a good area to keep an eye on- but I would not expect significant wear in "normal" shooting. After all the sear surfaces are hardened, it is when someone gets busy with a file or stone and removes the hard surface that problems start. One will frequently see a used sear bar with the catch area rebuilt.

Rich T · 12-30-2016, 11:06 AM

Well..it says something that it DID NOT go full auto tho, correct?

Sounds like I need a pro to be honest. I don’t want an unsafe weapon. And I’m not at all competent beyond basic firld stripping/cleaning. I will take ‘er down and have a look for “gunk"

And you know..this was a refinshed war prize... it came without a pin as I recall... Hmm...

DavidJayUden · 12-30-2016, 12:04 PM

I've had good luck sending Lugers off to our own LugerDoc for repairs. It's simple and easy, and don't tell him this, but inexpensive too.
Do not trust your local gunsmith to repair a Luger as very few have the experience required.
dju

DonVoigt · 12-30-2016, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

I've had good luck sending Lugers off to our own LugerDoc for repairs. It's simple and easy, and don't tell him this, but inexpensive too.
Do not trust your local gunsmith to repair a Luger as very few have the experience required.
dju

Or the parts, Doc does.

rhuff · 12-30-2016, 04:19 PM

If you are not mechanically inclined, and not comfortable diagnosing/treating your "sick Luger", then look to a Luger Specialist. You will be $ ahead.

Rich T · 12-30-2016, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

I've had good luck sending Lugers off to our own LugerDoc for repairs. It's simple and easy, and don't tell him this, but inexpensive too.
Do not trust your local gunsmith to repair a Luger as very few have the experience required.
dju

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Or the parts, Doc does.

Sage advice. Thor DID drop me a PM, but it sounds like he’s not doing alot of work any more.

LugerDoc... I’m gonna clean it up very well and check it out. Will advise. Are you an FFL holder? That would make it easier, but of no consequence. I will of course cover any additional fees should it be required to send.

12-26-2016, 11:46 PM	#1
Rich T User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oakland County, MI Posts: 33 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Soo.. issue: Fires on action release Happened to me twice. insert mag, ****/ release and POW. Any advice here?

12-27-2016, 01:02 AM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Probably sear engagement problem; could be the sear tab on the striker, the sear bar, or the sear spring. Or like Jim said, striker stuck. Tell us more about your specific pistol, model? matching? First time out? Worked ok before? Otherwise, we'll have to use the Ouija board. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-27-2016, 09:30 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	did you take it apart and clean the firing pin and inside of breechblock? Also, swapping in new parts, even numbered the same is still different parts than left the factory. Each part is liable to be hand-fitted at the factory, so even tho the same number, its not the same parts... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-27-2016, 10:45 AM	#7
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Rich, Take the side plate off and put it back together. UNLOADED, try the action as you describe- does it hold back the sear? You can tell by pressing on the sear bar plunger with a stick or something, it should go snap. While you are pressing, check to make sure the little plunger moves freely. If the sear contact points are worn, it is more likely to be the sear bar itself in my experience. Take the sear bar out and clean it and its recess well, could be some junk in there. If not- keep digging; if so, might be the trigger or side plate/lever fit. If you have another functioning luger, swap the upper to another frame and try it; and vice-versa. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-27-2016, 11:32 AM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	If the striker is not stuck with the pin exposed in the breech, it's slipping off the sear bar. This area is complex and hand fit. Start by checking to see if the little plunger and it's spring at the front of the sear bar is functioning properly. No resistance to being pushed in and springing back out. This is the disconnector. If it's not pushing in properly it could be tripping the sear. Check ot make sure that the trigger plate is being held flat and solidly against the side of the receiver and frame. Make sure that the sear is properly seated. Verify that the sear and the mating surface on the firing pin are sharp and true. Wear or an improper angle or someone's attempt at "improving" the trigger might have made it unsafe. This work is an area for an experienced Luger gunsmith. Very few regular gunsmiths have ever dealt with the complexity of this trigger system. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-26-2016, 11:47 PM	#2
Rich T User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oakland County, MI Posts: 33 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Hmmm..apparently I can’t say “C O C K”

12-27-2016, 12:46 AM	#3
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	Is the firing pin stuck sticking out?

12-27-2016, 08:10 AM	#5
Rich T User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oakland County, MI Posts: 33 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	It’s a 1936 S/42- been chasing #33 parts for recently. Turns out the danged trigger don’t match either... so I’m giving up on that. Pin is retracted. I have recently repurchased the pistol, after about 3 years. I did not have the issue before. Was not shot a ton by the other owner...maybe 250 rounds he said.

12-27-2016, 02:06 PM	#9
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts	And see if the sear return spring is not broken or missing.

12-27-2016, 03:13 PM	#10
Freischütz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 125 Thanks: 9 Thanked 26 Times in 19 Posts	I had this problem and found powder fouling on and in the breachblock caused it. I deliberately let the pistol get filthy to see how much it could stand. When it fired on closing I took it apart. It required about 400 rounds to reach this point. The firing pin and breachblock inside were coated in fouling and partially burned powder. The entire breachblock was sticky. Cleaning solved the problem.

12-27-2016, 03:20 PM	#11
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	Is the firing pin spring present and correct? Is the firing pin spring retainer locking correctly into the breachblock ?

12-29-2016, 11:06 AM	#13
K.Wilhelm User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South Central Colorado Posts: 215 Thanks: 45 Thanked 109 Times in 66 Posts	Firing on closing action I have had this happen on two different Lugers. Both times swapping to a spare sear bar corrected the issue. Too bad on one of them because it had a beautiful trigger pull before correction, and a terrible one after! Better to be safe, though. WB __________________ NRA Endowment Life member Proud veteran of the Naval Security Group

12-30-2016, 11:06 AM	#16
Rich T User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oakland County, MI Posts: 33 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Well..it says something that it DID NOT go full auto tho, correct? Sounds like I need a pro to be honest. I don’t want an unsafe weapon. And I’m not at all competent beyond basic firld stripping/cleaning. I will take ‘er down and have a look for “gunk" And you know..this was a refinshed war prize... it came without a pin as I recall... Hmm...

12-30-2016, 12:04 PM	#17
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I've had good luck sending Lugers off to our own LugerDoc for repairs. It's simple and easy, and don't tell him this, but inexpensive too. Do not trust your local gunsmith to repair a Luger as very few have the experience required. dju

12-30-2016, 04:19 PM	#19
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	If you are not mechanically inclined, and not comfortable diagnosing/treating your "sick Luger", then look to a Luger Specialist. You will be $ ahead.