1939 P.08 of unknown heritage maybe Luger?

Der_Michi · 02-11-2017, 02:29 PM

Hi fellow collectors,
I hope my english is not as bad as it sounds to me. I tried to read as many topics as possible to get things right, hopefully careful enough.

The Model I was presented to buy was offered by somebody who has literally no idea of what he has to sell, so all informations about it are rare at best...
I asked him for some pictures that match your requirements. Since the gun is not mine it is difficult to get the pictures made perfectly. Sorry for that.

Serial Number 4547 on frame
"Eagle" and "NPv" Marking on frame (couldn´t find anythig about those Markings)
"42" on front toggle link (Luger Company Code?)
"1939" on frame (Year of Production?)

Markings seem to be there but hard to identify for me.
Numbers are mathing except Magazine.

I would appreciate if anyone can tell me something about this item and maybe knows what it may be worth.

Thanks a lot, I hope I did this posting right.

Don M · 02-11-2017, 02:44 PM

Welcome to the forum. Others are more knowledgeable about these WWII-era Lugers than I so I will not clutter the thread with possibly erroneous information. However, I do want to congratulate you on your excellent English. I wish my German was half as good.

George Anderson · 02-11-2017, 03:18 PM

Michael, the Eagle and NPv markings on the breech block are Austrian proofs from the Vienna proof house.

Vlim · 02-11-2017, 03:51 PM

And the pistol was made by Mauser.

rhuff · 02-11-2017, 06:04 PM

It has been refinished, but I can't tell if it was dipped, or cold blue.....perhaps something else. Fair amount of corrosion and rust pitting on the outside.....hard to say what the insides look like. To me, it would definitely be a "shooter grade" Luger, and not a collector piece.

Der_Michi · 02-12-2017, 05:11 AM

Thanks a lot for your replys, and for the hints as well! Yesterday I was searching again for the markings and found something on our govermental internet site. Maybe you know that actually but if not it may be interesting for you.
George is right about the proof sign (never doubted that!!) Does that mean it has been marked in Austria after 1945? If so, it is not 100% original and of decreased value...

So if its a shooter grade, how much should I pay? Ideas anyone?

Cheers Michi

George Anderson · 02-12-2017, 07:35 AM

The Austrian proofs are after 1945. It may have seen use by the Austrian police in the years following the war.

suum cuique · 02-12-2017, 08:59 AM

Hi Michi,
the value of the Luger is hard to tell because prices in the US are higher than in Germany.
Because the market of used guns in Germany is very limited, prices are much cheaper compared to the US.
To find out the market price in Germany I would recommend to check prices on "egun", the internet marketplace for guns in Germany.
Due to the model and condition, in my opinion, the value is about 400.- to 500.- Euro.
But as I said, check prices on egun, it will give you a good overlook of average prices in Germany.

Der_Michi · 02-13-2017, 02:20 AM

Thanks for the info. Checked egun yesterday and prices indeed vary a lot between Germany and Austria (where I come from). No item hit at least 900,- whereas the owner of the gun I posted wants around 800,- what seems a little overdone to me since it obviously is a shooter after all the hints you gave me.

Maybe I search for some other guns for starting a collection

So brace yourselves, more threads are coming! Haha!

RShaw · 02-13-2017, 05:25 AM

Hi Michi,
I have not been here very long, but I can tell you that this forum is the right place to be for any questions and advice you have about Luger pistols. Reading the FAQ's (Frequently Asked Questions) are a great source to start, as well as going through the many threads in this forum. Acquiring a reliable shooter is a good way to start a collection, as it gives you the opportunity to shoot it without worrying about breaking a numbered part. AND... getting a real feel and appreciation for the gun in operation is a great way to understand why this gun has such a remarkable history. Of course the price goes down as well

Good collector pieces can start at around €1500 and they go up from there.
Looking forward to hearing what happens .... take your time....

By the way, your English is very good. (I am an English instructor.)

mrerick · 02-13-2017, 11:15 AM

Your Luger was made in 1939 by Mauser in Oberndorf. The "42" is Mauser's concealment code during that early part of the war.

The serial number will also include a suffix letter which appears on the frame above the trigger guard in the front.

It's very hard to judge finish in flash photographs. It does give the impression of a poor pitted finish that may have been refinished. In the USA the value would be $800 or so if it is fully functional. Your prices may vary quite a bit. I think it's overpriced.

If you are interested in a Luger, you really should look over our FAQs.

Marc

RShaw · 02-13-2017, 12:29 PM

If I were looking at this gun, I would use it as a shooter and / or a parts gun. The photos show a lot of pitting, as others have mentioned. I myself would not pay more than EU500. This assumes that the gun is fully and safely functional without your having to put time, effort and more money into it.

You say the gun "was offered by somebody who has literally no idea of what he has to sell," Seems the seller has a pretty good idea, seeing that his price is a bit high, as you and others have concluded. If you're not sure, or if you have doubts, then WAIT.

I'm NOT an expert, but... here are my own 2 cents worth.

ithacaartist · 02-13-2017, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RShaw

You say the gun "was offered by somebody who has literally no idea of what he has to sell," Seems the seller has a pretty good idea, seeing that his price is a bit high, as you and others have concluded.

Over-pricing takes different roads to arrive there. One is that of the charlatan, who certainly knows. An untutored seller may seem too optimistic due to lack of knowledge. It is a classic reaction to start dollar signs spinning in the eyes of someone who does not know a mis-matched parts gun from the million dollar Luger, but has heard of the latter, which influences the price.

Some sellers have open minds that will allow them to reassess the situation based on the facts. Others will stick stubbornly to their ridiculous fantasies.

RShaw · 02-13-2017, 11:09 PM

Food for thought...... and consideration

Der_Michi · 02-14-2017, 06:11 AM

Guys you are fantastic and thanks for ungrudging my english. To be honest, my dictionary is my best friend these days

I am in complete agreement with you Lifer, and I am very convinced that the price of this piece is largely influenced by the other Lugers on the Market around. I will take a closer look at it on Thursday and try to convince him that a used shooter, already having Austrian Post-War Beschusszeichen and being in used condition may be worth 500,- Euros since it has widely lost its collectors value.
Maybe he agrees with that, I´ll keep you updated!

Again, thanks for your Input

RShaw · 02-14-2017, 08:30 AM

The only real argument the seller would have for increasing the price is that this gun has all matching parts. You state that all the parts are matching...except the magazine. OK There is only one magazine? Would be nice if there were two. (another point you could mention- especially if you want to shoot it)

Even if all parts ARE matching, refinishing and pitting would still be a strong argument for you to keep the price down. Serious collectors are very fussy when it comes to the condition and appearance of the gun. Even a little rust or pitting turns many collectors away. Also, while rust can be removed, removal of pitting is far more difficult. Even one mismatched part will cut the gun's value by 30 - 50%

Hope this helps

Yes please keep us updated!!

rhuff · 02-14-2017, 03:13 PM

Some sellers say that it is an all parts matching Luger, and they mean all EXTERNAL parts are matching. Those numbers are easily seen from the outside. There are many more numbered parts inside that can not be seen unless the Luger is broken down. Those parts are just as important in an "all matching Luger" as the external parts.....just saying.

RShaw · 02-14-2017, 03:56 PM

Ahh good to know!
I always thought that when a gun is described as "all matching" that it means "ALL matching parts" including the trigger, extractor, firing pin, sear bar, safety bar, grips, etc, etc. which one does not see from the outside.

Was wondering about that when I was negotiating for my 1917 DWM- the seller said "all matching" but I hesitated to ask him such questions, since it would appear that I'm questioning his integrity.
Last thing anyone needs is a misunderstanding along that line. Thanks for the comment.

I understand that even if EVERYTHING matches, EXCEPT even one part, let's say, the firing pin, that the value drops like a stone...

Der_Michi · 02-24-2017, 08:46 AM

Mahlzeit, Guys!

As promised, I want to send you some more Pics. Some of the Markings are identified by now, like the Viennese NPv Markings. But I´d be glad if someone could tell me more about some of the other. Especially those on the inside. I read some Posts about the drilling marks and production marks, which I can see on this gun too (and it makes me feel like really getting into this

).

Hope the pics are good enough since I still have to buy good Optics for my Canon and build this Photobox

These pics were made on a quite cloudy day ... you know ... diffusing the light...

Cheers Michi

Der_Michi · 02-24-2017, 08:58 AM

Ah, one oh the pics is the Holster that came with it, so... don´t know if its custom made or really old stuff. The pitting seems really bad compared with some of your collectors pieces, but I decided to go the "it´s all history, you know - 1939 and still working, even survived police service" way here.

02-11-2017, 02:29 PM	#1
Der_Michi User Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 12 Thanks: 11 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	1939 P.08 of unknown heritage maybe Luger? Hi fellow collectors, I hope my english is not as bad as it sounds to me. I tried to read as many topics as possible to get things right, hopefully careful enough. The Model I was presented to buy was offered by somebody who has literally no idea of what he has to sell, so all informations about it are rare at best... I asked him for some pictures that match your requirements. Since the gun is not mine it is difficult to get the pictures made perfectly. Sorry for that. Serial Number 4547 on frame "Eagle" and "NPv" Marking on frame (couldn´t find anythig about those Markings) "42" on front toggle link (Luger Company Code?) "1939" on frame (Year of Production?) Markings seem to be there but hard to identify for me. Numbers are mathing except Magazine. I would appreciate if anyone can tell me something about this item and maybe knows what it may be worth. Thanks a lot, I hope I did this posting right. Attached Thumbnails

02-11-2017, 02:44 PM	#2
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Welcome to the forum. Others are more knowledgeable about these WWII-era Lugers than I so I will not clutter the thread with possibly erroneous information. However, I do want to congratulate you on your excellent English. I wish my German was half as good. __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

02-12-2017, 08:59 AM	#8
suum cuique User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: MD / Currently about 9000 klicks east of the Potomac Posts: 497 Thanks: 100 Thanked 47 Times in 35 Posts	Hi Michi, the value of the Luger is hard to tell because prices in the US are higher than in Germany. Because the market of used guns in Germany is very limited, prices are much cheaper compared to the US. To find out the market price in Germany I would recommend to check prices on "egun", the internet marketplace for guns in Germany. Due to the model and condition, in my opinion, the value is about 400.- to 500.- Euro. But as I said, check prices on egun, it will give you a good overlook of average prices in Germany. __________________ Regards, Andy There's No Place Like Home (Wizard Of Oz) Last edited by suum cuique; 02-12-2017 at 09:02 AM. Reason: typo

02-13-2017, 05:25 AM	#10
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Hi Michi, I have not been here very long, but I can tell you that this forum is the right place to be for any questions and advice you have about Luger pistols. Reading the FAQ's (Frequently Asked Questions) are a great source to start, as well as going through the many threads in this forum. Acquiring a reliable shooter is a good way to start a collection, as it gives you the opportunity to shoot it without worrying about breaking a numbered part. AND... getting a real feel and appreciation for the gun in operation is a great way to understand why this gun has such a remarkable history. Of course the price goes down as well Good collector pieces can start at around €1500 and they go up from there. Looking forward to hearing what happens .... take your time.... By the way, your English is very good. (I am an English instructor.) Last edited by RShaw; 02-13-2017 at 05:30 AM. Reason: Misspelled words, thanks

02-13-2017, 11:15 AM	#11
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Your Luger was made in 1939 by Mauser in Oberndorf. The "42" is Mauser's concealment code during that early part of the war. The serial number will also include a suffix letter which appears on the frame above the trigger guard in the front. It's very hard to judge finish in flash photographs. It does give the impression of a poor pitted finish that may have been refinished. In the USA the value would be $800 or so if it is fully functional. Your prices may vary quite a bit. I think it's overpriced. If you are interested in a Luger, you really should look over our FAQs. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-11-2017, 03:18 PM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Michael, the Eagle and NPv markings on the breech block are Austrian proofs from the Vienna proof house.

02-11-2017, 03:51 PM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	And the pistol was made by Mauser.

02-11-2017, 06:04 PM	#5
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	It has been refinished, but I can't tell if it was dipped, or cold blue.....perhaps something else. Fair amount of corrosion and rust pitting on the outside.....hard to say what the insides look like. To me, it would definitely be a "shooter grade" Luger, and not a collector piece.

02-12-2017, 07:35 AM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	The Austrian proofs are after 1945. It may have seen use by the Austrian police in the years following the war.

02-13-2017, 02:20 AM	#9
Der_Michi User Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 12 Thanks: 11 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks for the info. Checked egun yesterday and prices indeed vary a lot between Germany and Austria (where I come from). No item hit at least 900,- whereas the owner of the gun I posted wants around 800,- what seems a little overdone to me since it obviously is a shooter after all the hints you gave me. Maybe I search for some other guns for starting a collection So brace yourselves, more threads are coming! Haha!

02-13-2017, 12:29 PM	#12
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	If I were looking at this gun, I would use it as a shooter and / or a parts gun. The photos show a lot of pitting, as others have mentioned. I myself would not pay more than EU500. This assumes that the gun is fully and safely functional without your having to put time, effort and more money into it. You say the gun "was offered by somebody who has literally no idea of what he has to sell," Seems the seller has a pretty good idea, seeing that his price is a bit high, as you and others have concluded. If you're not sure, or if you have doubts, then WAIT. I'm NOT an expert, but... here are my own 2 cents worth.

02-13-2017, 11:09 PM	#14
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Food for thought...... and consideration

02-14-2017, 06:11 AM	#15
Der_Michi User Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 12 Thanks: 11 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Guys you are fantastic and thanks for ungrudging my english. To be honest, my dictionary is my best friend these days I am in complete agreement with you Lifer, and I am very convinced that the price of this piece is largely influenced by the other Lugers on the Market around. I will take a closer look at it on Thursday and try to convince him that a used shooter, already having Austrian Post-War Beschusszeichen and being in used condition may be worth 500,- Euros since it has widely lost its collectors value. Maybe he agrees with that, I´ll keep you updated! Again, thanks for your Input

02-14-2017, 08:30 AM	#16
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	The only real argument the seller would have for increasing the price is that this gun has all matching parts. You state that all the parts are matching...except the magazine. OK There is only one magazine? Would be nice if there were two. (another point you could mention- especially if you want to shoot it) Even if all parts ARE matching, refinishing and pitting would still be a strong argument for you to keep the price down. Serious collectors are very fussy when it comes to the condition and appearance of the gun. Even a little rust or pitting turns many collectors away. Also, while rust can be removed, removal of pitting is far more difficult. Even one mismatched part will cut the gun's value by 30 - 50% Hope this helps Yes please keep us updated!! Last edited by RShaw; 02-14-2017 at 08:36 AM. Reason: to shorten this reply

02-14-2017, 03:13 PM	#17
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	Some sellers say that it is an all parts matching Luger, and they mean all EXTERNAL parts are matching. Those numbers are easily seen from the outside. There are many more numbered parts inside that can not be seen unless the Luger is broken down. Those parts are just as important in an "all matching Luger" as the external parts.....just saying.

02-14-2017, 03:56 PM	#18
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Ahh good to know! I always thought that when a gun is described as "all matching" that it means "ALL matching parts" including the trigger, extractor, firing pin, sear bar, safety bar, grips, etc, etc. which one does not see from the outside. Was wondering about that when I was negotiating for my 1917 DWM- the seller said "all matching" but I hesitated to ask him such questions, since it would appear that I'm questioning his integrity. Last thing anyone needs is a misunderstanding along that line. Thanks for the comment. I understand that even if EVERYTHING matches, EXCEPT even one part, let's say, the firing pin, that the value drops like a stone...

02-24-2017, 08:46 AM	#19
Der_Michi User Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 12 Thanks: 11 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Mahlzeit, Guys! As promised, I want to send you some more Pics. Some of the Markings are identified by now, like the Viennese NPv Markings. But I´d be glad if someone could tell me more about some of the other. Especially those on the inside. I read some Posts about the drilling marks and production marks, which I can see on this gun too (and it makes me feel like really getting into this ). Hope the pics are good enough since I still have to buy good Optics for my Canon and build this Photobox These pics were made on a quite cloudy day ... you know ... diffusing the light... Cheers Michi Attached Thumbnails

02-24-2017, 08:58 AM	#20
Der_Michi User Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 12 Thanks: 11 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Ah, one oh the pics is the Holster that came with it, so... don´t know if its custom made or really old stuff. The pitting seems really bad compared with some of your collectors pieces, but I decided to go the "it´s all history, you know - 1939 and still working, even survived police service" way here.