Questions please on my first “06/24 Bern”

[Joe in Colorado]

My name is Joe, I’m a long time non-advanced collector in Colorado. I just took delivery of this pleasant looking pistol and holster from Collector’s Firearms in Houston. I’ve never owned one of these and hardly looked at them before. This pistol fits in my 9-Luger collection as tie-in to several Mauser Parabellums via a 1929 Swiss. (An odd story-of course Mauser started with the more “modern” 1929 style pistol and gradually moved backwards to this earlier model to suite collector’s tastes.)

From what I can see the pistol is a recent import and has been rebuilt. At first I thought just the barrel extension had been refinished because the inspector “M” has been smeared-also the “725” on the bottom-probably when the barrel (with a small cross on the right side) was replaced. I first thought the receiver was not refinished because the safety area was still white-but in taking the photo for my post it now seems the finish there has been removed by careful machining. (???) The front sight has been neatly filed in several spots-except for a couple of file blows that struck the barrel. The rear sight has been shaped to a “U” and perhaps lightly filed on top. The hold open face is a bit beat up, the bolt face (no photo) shows little or no firing since it was last finished. The firing pin seems to be marked “77”. No "P/date" stamp. I note the sear bar is dark only on the front half, leaving the side uncovered by the side plate in the white. I can't say that I like the import mark but it's neatly done and I can live with it, the price was $1610. I don't need a perfect example for my purposes and nicer ones seem to priced a lot more.

Having said all that, now I hope that some kindly and experienced collectors could comment, especially on which parts of the rework had been or may have been done in Swiss Army service, while refurbished by the Swiss, while owned by a fairly neat Swiss target shooter, or done recently in a possibly low-class workshop to make the pistol presentable for sale.

What about firing this pistol? It should be 100 years old next year.

Thank you, Joe

[mrerick]

IIRC, your Swiss W+F was one of the first 600 or so made under license at Bern. Probably dates to late 1921.

I don't think that the firing pin numbered that way is original to the gun. Does it have a Swiss proof mark on it? There should be a small cross acceptance mark.

Mine has an all blue sear bar, and I don't have an explanation for the part of yours that is without finish.

It's possible someone doing action work replaced the firing pin and sear. That could explain changing both.

It's also unlikely that the sight would be filed that way by someone at Bern and then left unfinished.

These are very well made Lugers. I personally don't shoot my collectible pistols because of the potential for breaking numbered parts. I have another finish challengedMauser 9mm military Luger for shooting.

That said, this one was likely reworked for someone that used it to target shoot.

[Joe in Colorado]

Thank you for your prompt reply. I'll try to answer to your requests for more information. But first, is that normal or weird how the blue finish in the safety area seems to have been removed by brushing or machining? Do you see the circular marks in that white area?
Yes, my old copy of Luger Variations says the first was #15216 so this would be #559.
The firing pin is only marked "17" with no cross or anything I could see.
Regarding the sear bar finish, I looked with google images and saw some others that were light but not nearly this extreme.
Thank you for your other helpful comments, including that this pistol was most likely worked on by a past owner in Switzerland following the gun's military service. For the price that doesn't bother me too much and also is one reason I asked about shooting this pistol-assuming it had been rebuilt and tinkered with for a shooter in Switzerland years ago.
Finally-I also have a finish-challenged Mauser Luger I use for shooting. It's a byf 41 in great shape and finish except for the barrel side and the side plate. Fifty years ago we used G66 cold blue to touch over spots like this and it blended in fine. Is there a current cold blue that you or another member can suggest please?
That's all, thank you again, Joe

[mrerick]

I think it would not be possible to determine where the pistol was worked on. Could have been done there. Could have been done here. Impossible to determine the level of skill of the person doing the work without testing it.

I would never use cold blue on a pistol like this.

[Sergio Natali]

Joe

In my opinion you've got a very nice shooter grade Swiss Luger.
From the s/n I would have said that it was made in 1918/1919 range of time, as far as its parts without a proper finish are concerned, I think this gun would need to be looked at very close, in any case I believe it was worked on only after it left the Swiss Army, probably by one of its previous owners.

Regards.

[Major Tom]

I found Perma Blue paste cold blue to be the best because as a paste it will not 'run' else where. Shooters Solutions is also a good cold blue.

[ithacaartist]

Joe,

Original pistols of this pattern have their "safe" areas milled/created after rust bluing. One expects to see slight swirls left by the tool in this area, but what gives this one away as a refinish is the lack of straightness/crispness to the lines that are the edges of the area. It appears to me that this one's finish was applied after the safety area was shined up.

Perhaps it's the tones of the photo, but the sear bar appears to have been heated near its pivot. The part without the finish seems to display the gradient of colors that develop when unfinished steel is heated. Strange, indeed.

[Mark1]

Joe,
The '06 Bern Lugers are very well made and the Swiss military maintained them to a high standard. All that I have seen have had areas of refinishing, usually very well done. The sear bar on my own 1930 vintage gun is all blue.
Changing from 50 metre centre aim to a six oclock point of aim at 25 metres for target shooting would explain the foresight modification. Perhaps the sear bar surfaces have been stoned and then re-hardened to improve trigger pull and that may explain the firing pin change also?
I understand that target shooting of ex military pistols is very popular in Switzerland, so it is probable those modifications happened there ?? How is the trigger pull ?
I'm sure that Tom Heller (LugerDoc on this forum) could supply an original Swiss foresight if required.
Mark

[cirelaw]

I Hate Import mark~ A magic marker on a Picasso!! A Big Zitt!

[Joe in Colorado]

Thanks to all of you for your helpful replies. I've learned a lot, thank you. Mark's reply was especially helpful, thank you. Mark-yes-the trigger pull is incredibly light. Were I to try and summarize, of course this pistol served in the Swiss military. At some point the original barrel was swapped out, I think also the front toggle link. Once it was retired the pistol was set up and probably used for target practice as a hobby or sport. These modifications include rework to the sear bar and front sight, the firing pin changed, the action seems set for a light trigger pull. During or after this period the pistol was refinished in a semi-professional way, not without flaws.
By the way, for what it's worth I emailed the importer to ask if this notion may be true, I'll post if I get a reply.
Thanks also for the info on the cold blue...I'll try to post some before-and-after photos...any good ideas on refilling the safety lettering please? Just the right off-white color?
Best Wishes, Joe

[Sergio Natali]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

I Hate Import mark~ A magic marker on a Picasso!!

You're right I agree, perhaps in the States you're less likely to find a nice collectible with import marks, while here they are fairly common as most of the collectibles guns get into Italy through German bid dealers.

[Joe in Colorado]

Thank you Sergio.
I emailed the importer and kindly received this reply:
Hello,
We imported these for a friend roughly 5 years ago. I’m not sure exactly who he got them from and he has since passed away. We have no intention of importing more of these in the future. Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.
Regards,
Alex Stevenson
Ohio Ordnance Works, Inc.

I suppose that's about all there is to say, thank you all, Joe.

[mecano44]

Be very careful by shooting these old swiss P06 ( WF Bern) we had some broken here in Switzeland ( mainly the toggle )

Must say with the modern 30. Ammo that we can again purchase since two years, by the army authority

This ammo is mainly and still used by many shooters with their SIG 210 ( P49) for regular shooting contests

We are some that already shoot with P29, that holds this ammo

Steel available just after WWI was not of the same quality that the one used by DWM or Erfurt

Pre War swiss P06 ( all made by DWM) generally hold this ammo , but not the P00....

But I generally recommend not to shoot swiss P06 , except the P06/29

[Lugerdoc]

Joe, I have both original Swiss marked unnumbered firing pins and front sight blades in stock. PM sent with details. TH