Test eagle close

Mike B · 07-25-2018, 02:27 AM

In the upcoming Rock Island auction there is a 1900 Eagle that meets all the criteria for a test gun; No Germany; last two of the serial stamped on the right side of the take down lever; American Eagle over chamber and no proof marks. Only problem is it misses the first gun (6100) by 9 numbers. The serial number is 6091. Personally I think all things considered, it probably was a test for the test guns. Opionions?

Mike

4 Scale · 07-25-2018, 12:03 PM

I personally look at the question as there are documented 1900 AE test guns, denoted on Ron's list, and then there are pistols near the range with test AE characteristics such as those you mention. While I find both types fascinating and desirable, to me the word "probably" in this context means "more likely than not". To make a determination of "probably" IMO requires evidence, and to my knowledge there is no such evidence. I would love for a knowledgable collector to point out tangible evidence regarding pistols outside the known range and will watch the thread with interest to see if such statements appear.

Dwight Gruber · 07-25-2018, 03:08 PM

There is not a set of physical characteristics which definitively identify a U.S. Test Eagle. The only "tangible evidence" authenticating Test Eagle is the serial numbers of the pistols acquired at auction by Frances Bannerman, plus a handful of pistols recorded in official documents discovered by Clark Rickman. These constitute the sum total of the knowledge of a serial number range.

If by "known range" you mean the arbitrarily designated 6100-7100 set, the Bannerman numbers record one pistol beyond that range (sn 7147), and no numbers earlier than sn 6167.

--Dwight

Ron Wood · 07-25-2018, 04:02 PM

Number 6091 has been in the data base for some time. To date I have recorded 27 “below range” Lugers from #5978 to #6099 exhibiting “test characteristics”. Dwight has identified the lower and upper serial numbers of the Bannerman purchase which is the current definitive range of positively identifiable Lugers that actually participated in the test trials (which also includes the range of the eight pieces discovered by Clark Rickman in the archives). It is interesting to note that the lower Bannerman number, #6167, was also included in the report by 2nd Lt. Orlando B. Palmer, the only report by serial number contemporary with the test trials, so that piece has rock solid provenance.
Ron

Dwight Gruber · 07-25-2018, 08:05 PM

"Definitive range" = very useful terminology, thanks Ron!

--Dwight

cirelaw · 08-01-2018, 12:51 PM

Clark wonderful Research~~~http://testluger.com/

Clark~ http://testluger.com/?page_id=2

07-25-2018, 02:27 AM	#1
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Test eagle close In the upcoming Rock Island auction there is a 1900 Eagle that meets all the criteria for a test gun; No Germany; last two of the serial stamped on the right side of the take down lever; American Eagle over chamber and no proof marks. Only problem is it misses the first gun (6100) by 9 numbers. The serial number is 6091. Personally I think all things considered, it probably was a test for the test guns. Opionions? Mike

07-25-2018, 04:02 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Number 6091 has been in the data base for some time. To date I have recorded 27 “below range” Lugers from #5978 to #6099 exhibiting “test characteristics”. Dwight has identified the lower and upper serial numbers of the Bannerman purchase which is the current definitive range of positively identifiable Lugers that actually participated in the test trials (which also includes the range of the eight pieces discovered by Clark Rickman in the archives). It is interesting to note that the lower Bannerman number, #6167, was also included in the report by 2nd Lt. Orlando B. Palmer, the only report by serial number contemporary with the test trials, so that piece has rock solid provenance. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-25-2018, 12:03 PM	#2
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	I personally look at the question as there are documented 1900 AE test guns, denoted on Ron's list, and then there are pistols near the range with test AE characteristics such as those you mention. While I find both types fascinating and desirable, to me the word "probably" in this context means "more likely than not". To make a determination of "probably" IMO requires evidence, and to my knowledge there is no such evidence. I would love for a knowledgable collector to point out tangible evidence regarding pistols outside the known range and will watch the thread with interest to see if such statements appear.

07-25-2018, 03:08 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	There is not a set of physical characteristics which definitively identify a U.S. Test Eagle. The only "tangible evidence" authenticating Test Eagle is the serial numbers of the pistols acquired at auction by Frances Bannerman, plus a handful of pistols recorded in official documents discovered by Clark Rickman. These constitute the sum total of the knowledge of a serial number range. If by "known range" you mean the arbitrarily designated 6100-7100 set, the Bannerman numbers record one pistol beyond that range (sn 7147), and no numbers earlier than sn 6167. --Dwight

07-25-2018, 08:05 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	"Definitive range" = very useful terminology, thanks Ron! --Dwight

08-01-2018, 12:51 PM	#6
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Clark wonderful Research~~~http://testluger.com/ Clark~ http://testluger.com/?page_id=2