WwMg/41 - Eagle/Mg10 Holster

[Pistol]

I recently picked up a BYF 42 luger rig with proper E/135 tool and two proper bakelite bottom mags. I did a search in both forums and the holster has reportdly "rare" stamps of WwMg/41 and Eagle/Mg10.

Looks like the opinion on these stamps has differed over the years. Some ideas include: an auxiliary force stamp, a Madeburg inspector stamp, a machine gun school No.10 , a Austrian eagle, etc.

Any new info on these marks? I did find that lugers and other guns marked with Mg10 are thought to be Madeburg reworks.

[wlyon]

According to Costanzo's World of Lugers --Eagle Mg10 was used for Machine Gun Crew 10 Training Corps> The luger issued with then also had the Eagle MG10 and were used as a training aid by instructors for assembly and field stripping. He states that holsters ,tools and lugers were so marked. Bill

[Pistol]

Thanks Bill,

I did see that as a possible explanation. Others say it is an inspector mark.

[DonVoigt]

IMO,
the MG training unit is something Costanzo made up after talking with luger guru Shattuck.

[Pistol]

It seems the latest explanation leans toward a Madeburg inpector stamp.

[wlyon]

Don
You are probably correct but do you have any proof of your statement?? Just curious. Bill

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by wlyon

Don
You are probably correct but do you have any proof of your statement?? Just curious. Bill

No Bill, no proof- but neither did Costanzo when he wrote the book.

It is just not logical that there is such a training unit that would have marked their holsters; or taught how to use a pistol. A MG training unit would train on machine guns, leaving the pistol to basic training.

JMHO

[MP38]

Originally Posted by Pistol

It seems the latest explanation leans toward a Madeburg inpector stamp.

Pistol is correct. The E/Mg10 proof is attributed to the waffenwerk depot at Magdeburg. The first marking is the "WwMg" which is "Waffenwerk Magdeburg". The "Mg10" is the inspector stamp or proof marking used at this depot. Of note is; every one I have seen was dated "41".

That's a very rare holster you have. I have only seen 3 in my entire life. It looks to be in good unaltered condition as well. Excellent find!

I've attached photos of another, as well as the E/Mg10 Luger that goes with that holster!

Matt

[wlyon]

Curious why this inspectors mark on the rear when it already has inspectors marks on the right side?

[DonVoigt]

An Mg10 as a depot repair/refurb mark makes sense; such are often found in odd or "extra" places.
Sort of a "provisional or additional" marking showing depot inspection or repair. JMHO.

[wlyon]

Sounds good to me. But now why the holster? Bill

[DonVoigt]

Perhaps the holster required repair also?
Does seem a little strange to see a depot mark on a holster.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I'm with Bill here..I have seen my share of holsters with and without repairs and never any indication whatever of any marking denotes repairs. So it can't be that.


I would have to say that it's an inspector mark much like the WaA is. An acceptance. It's so similar in appearance to a WaA..Eagle with the Mg 10. The WaA was Army acceptance, could be the Mg 10 was some smaller branch of service? Would have to be something REALLY smaller though wouldn't it?

[DonVoigt]

There is a list of the Heerszugamt locations in one of the books, they are a "smaller" organization you mention; I would think the WMg10 is a similar depot or some such smaller repair location.

Or another way to put it is the Eagle/Mg10 is similar to the HZaIJ type marking of a small unit of he supply/repair system. The HZa with letter/numbers is seen on parts and pistols.

Could beE/WMg10 thought marking "everything" was a good idea and used there stamp promiscuously - including on leather(and were the only depot to do so-in spite of no "orders" to mark leather goods).
I believe there are 3 or 4 observed E/Mg10 marked holsters mentioned in this thread alone.
So rather than "it can't be that"- it could possibly be that. JMHO
JMHO.

[MP38]

Originally Posted by wlyon

Curious why this inspectors mark on the rear when it already has inspectors marks on the right side?

Don is correct. The Luger is a rework by the Waffen-Werk depot at Magdeburg. Marked "Eagle/Mg10" on back of frame. Many depots had different markings, and different locations.

The holster was made at this depot as well. These holsters are not rework holsters! The "E/Mg10" markings is the inspectors proof from the depot.
Depot rework holsters are an entirely different subject matter. We can start a thread on those too if anyone cares to?

I've studied these holsters for a very long time, as depot/rework items are really fascinating to me. I have several holsters from several of these, and seen dozens more.

I've attached photos of another Depot made holster. This one is by Waffen-Werkstatt depot at Hannover, and is marked "Ww.Hr" and proof marked "Hr.5"

Matt

[lugerholsterrepair]

Matt, The first marking is the "WwMg" which is "Waffenwerk Magdeburg". This is placed over the date in lieu of a maker name or code so your thought is a good one I think.



It would seem odd to have a leather shop for making just a few new holsters at a firearm repair depot though? Gearing up and maintaining a Luger holster making shop wouldn't be any small enterprise. That and the fact that there were hundreds of available shops willing and able to provide completed holsters seemingly.


Depot rework holsters are an entirely different subject matter. We can start a thread on those too if anyone cares to? I would care to. But in all honesty, outside of RR conversions to Luger, detecting a holster that was repaired or reworked? I would like to hear from anyone about this subject.



I have mentioned this repeatedly over the years but bears repeating again. I have never seen a photograph of a WW1 or 2 leather shop making Luger holsters! It seems impossible that this subject was never photographed..but if there are any I have not been aware of it.

[DonVoigt]

"I have mentioned this repeatedly over the years but bears repeating again. I have never seen a photograph of a WW1 or 2 leather shop making Luger holsters! It seems impossible that this subject was never photographed..but if there are any I have not been aware of it."

I have seen only one picture of a luger "repair/rework" station, it is in one of Still's books, IIRC, and is at one of the Naval depots.

I'd love to see more period pictures of any such work shops.

"But in all honesty, outside of RR conversions to Luger, detecting a holster that was repaired or reworked? I would like to hear from anyone about this subject."

I guess only by the presence of re-work station inspection markings ?
MP38-
Any ideas on this or examples you have?

[MP38]

Jerry/Don,

Finding photos of wartime leather shops is something, I must admit, I've never searched for. (strange, since I collect photos of pistols/holsters being worn) That would be neat to find.

Jerry as for your questions about the depots making holsters, why wouldn't they?
The various Waffen-Werk depots were of various sizes, and each depot was generally assigned to work on specific items. (ie- Firearms, wheeled vehicles, tanks, field gear, footwear, artillery pieces, and so on.....)
A depot that was equipped to repair leather items, such as holsters, boots, ammo pouches, saddles, would have all the tools and equipment needed to make a holster as well. So, all they would really need is new hides supplied, which again, I'm sure they had since they needed new hides to perform many of the repairs as well.

As I mentioned earlier, rework holsters are a different subject matter. They are much more common and easy to find. Strangely many collectors don't value them as much, so often they can be obtained much cheaper than a standard holster.
Some depot reworks were marked with the depot proof mark that did the work. Others were not. I've attached a few holsters here that are all marked.
So not to confuse readers, these photos are all depot reworked holsters. The photos I posted above are depot produced holsters.

Matt

[MP38]

Here's an example of a depot rework holster that is not marked. It is a rework of a Roth-Steyr holster and appears to have been done at the same depot as the one posted above with "eagle/Ws1" proof, which is indication the rework was done at the Waffen-Werkstatt depot located in Wels, Austria.

Matt

[MP38]

Here is a list of all the German Field depots, dated 1944. It also shows their abbreviations and districts.

Matt