STRANGE parts Artillery 1906 Commercial

CorporalGungee · 04-04-2020, 03:37 AM

I bought this pistol at auction without knowing about the strange things that exist in this Luger . i was aware that it is a 1906 Commercial frame and mis-matched 7 inch shortened barrel . The two toggle links match the frame . Obvious good project gun or parts gun . I have no idea what to think of the oddities ?

First is the receiver / barrel extension does not have a hole in the back for the toggle axle pin , and there are no proofs or serial number . This part also has a small flat across the chamber from front to back . This part is also fully period type blued and does not look like it was scrubbed of any old markings .

Second is the breech block is in the white and not completed in the manufacture / making machining , and no markings .

Third is the brass rear sight base and the locking bolt that is a composite piece of copper and brass pinned together ; also the breech block pin is brass . These parts all show quality manufacture .

DonVoigt · 04-04-2020, 10:19 AM

Bubba or another talented 'smith has been hard at work!

"First is the receiver / barrel extension does not have a hole in the back for the toggle axle pin , and there are no proofs or serial number . This part also has a small flat across the chamber from front to back . This part is also fully period type blued and does not look like it was scrubbed of any old markings ."
I'm not seeing/understanding this statement, maybe you can post pictures of the disassembled
receiver and these peculiar attributes?

CorporalGungee · 04-04-2020, 11:12 AM

there is no through hole for the toggle axle pin in the back of the receiver . NO HOLE AT ALL !

George Anderson · 04-04-2020, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorporalGungee

there is no through hole for the toggle axle pin in the back of the receiver . NO HOLE AT ALL !

What the hell is holding it all together?

CorporalGungee · 04-04-2020, 06:13 PM

good point , you can't put in a axle pin because there is no hole for one and the breech block pin is brass and the locking bolt is copper & brass that is pinned together so not strong at all the recoil spring assembly is connected to the toggle and that's why it looks assembled

CorporalGungee · 04-04-2020, 09:15 PM

a gunsmith friend suggested that it might be a prototype ?

Bill_in_VA · 04-04-2020, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorporalGungee

good point , you can't put in a axle pin because there is no hole for one and the breech block pin is brass and the locking bolt is copper & brass that is pinned together so not strong at all the recoil spring assembly is connected to the toggle and that's why it looks assembled

How about some photos?

wlyon · 04-04-2020, 10:56 PM

Prototype of what? One thing I would bet on this is not a prototype> Bill

Lugerdoc · 04-05-2020, 12:15 AM

I've seen several LPO8s that originally had a fine tune front sights that froze up and it seems the standard Weimar era repair was to cut off the front of the barrel at the rear of the sight base and either weld on a C96 fixed front sight or sleeve on a new standard P08 front sight & base, which appears to have been removed from this one. TH

gunbugs · 04-05-2020, 04:07 AM

Looks like a home made takedown lever as well. At least a poor fabrication. Hopefully this thing was free.

DonVoigt · 04-05-2020, 10:55 AM

Perhaps you are using different names for parts than we are used to;
maybe study the stickies and bone up on nomenclature.

Without more pictures this is an impossible exercise.

But it is not a prototype- it is an obvious hodpodge of pieces-some of which are one off or home made.

JMHO.

cirelaw · 04-05-2020, 11:34 AM

A Pretty Paper Weight!

CorporalGungee · 04-05-2020, 06:39 PM

I am just a beginner in taking pictures so I hope this will give everyone a idea of the strange things that I mention describing this Luger . Please note that a firing pin can not be installed in the breech block and it is not fully machined on the top and bottom .

DonVoigt · 04-05-2020, 06:44 PM

Thanks for the pictures.
Yes, the breech block is not "finished" and pretty much worthless.
Ditto for the receiver.
The take down lever is not complete, and non-functional.

I'm sorry to say that only the frame and the rear part of the toggle, maybe the barrel would be useable.

If possible, I'd return this purchase.

If not, what do you want/expect to do with it?

I'm curious as to what you might have paid for this , if you want to share.

CorporalGungee · 04-05-2020, 06:44 PM

here is some more pictures that might show the issues that I describe better .

CorporalGungee · 04-05-2020, 06:50 PM

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/853361144
I had paid $601.11 plus $25 shipping and $20 FFL dealer transfer . I had hopes of putting it together from parts that I have on hand , but this is deeper than I had expected .

Doubs · 04-05-2020, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorporalGungee

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/853361144
I had paid $601.11 plus $25 shipping and $20 FFL dealer transfer . I had hopes of putting it together from parts that I have on hand , but this is deeper than I had expected .

If I were you, I'd take advantage of the 30 day return period... and FAST.

DonVoigt · 04-06-2020, 10:32 AM

Yes, send it back!
The seller was less than honest in his description "toggles work"!
Impossible without the rear hole!

Even if you added the rear hole, you have no idea if this unfinished receiver is heat treated at all!

CorporalGungee · 04-06-2020, 03:47 PM

the FFL Dealer that I bought it from has offered to take it back for refund of purchase price "only" , no shipping costs either way

Mister Sunshine · 04-06-2020, 03:52 PM

All I can say is "OUCH". I saw a contract Luger in a gun shop, Finish I think but not sure, with two non matching small parts for $600 but it was shooter and in good condition. Send the head ache back to the crook.

04-04-2020, 03:37 AM	#1
CorporalGungee User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 33 Thanks: 12 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	STRANGE parts Artillery 1906 Commercial I bought this pistol at auction without knowing about the strange things that exist in this Luger . i was aware that it is a 1906 Commercial frame and mis-matched 7 inch shortened barrel . The two toggle links match the frame . Obvious good project gun or parts gun . I have no idea what to think of the oddities ? First is the receiver / barrel extension does not have a hole in the back for the toggle axle pin , and there are no proofs or serial number . This part also has a small flat across the chamber from front to back . This part is also fully period type blued and does not look like it was scrubbed of any old markings . Second is the breech block is in the white and not completed in the manufacture / making machining , and no markings . Third is the brass rear sight base and the locking bolt that is a composite piece of copper and brass pinned together ; also the breech block pin is brass . These parts all show quality manufacture . Attached Thumbnails

04-04-2020, 10:19 AM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Bubba or another talented 'smith has been hard at work! "First is the receiver / barrel extension does not have a hole in the back for the toggle axle pin , and there are no proofs or serial number . This part also has a small flat across the chamber from front to back . This part is also fully period type blued and does not look like it was scrubbed of any old markings ." I'm not seeing/understanding this statement, maybe you can post pictures of the disassembled receiver and these peculiar attributes? __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-04-2020, 10:56 PM	#8
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,636 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,559 Times in 955 Posts	Prototype of what? One thing I would bet on this is not a prototype> Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

04-05-2020, 12:15 AM	#9
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I've seen several LPO8s that originally had a fine tune front sights that froze up and it seems the standard Weimar era repair was to cut off the front of the barrel at the rear of the sight base and either weld on a C96 fixed front sight or sleeve on a new standard P08 front sight & base, which appears to have been removed from this one. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

04-05-2020, 10:55 AM	#11
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Perhaps you are using different names for parts than we are used to; maybe study the stickies and bone up on nomenclature. Without more pictures this is an impossible exercise. But it is not a prototype- it is an obvious hodpodge of pieces-some of which are one off or home made. JMHO. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-04-2020, 11:12 AM	#3
CorporalGungee User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 33 Thanks: 12 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	there is no through hole for the toggle axle pin in the back of the receiver . NO HOLE AT ALL !

04-04-2020, 06:13 PM	#5
CorporalGungee User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 33 Thanks: 12 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	good point , you can't put in a axle pin because there is no hole for one and the breech block pin is brass and the locking bolt is copper & brass that is pinned together so not strong at all the recoil spring assembly is connected to the toggle and that's why it looks assembled

04-04-2020, 09:15 PM	#6
CorporalGungee User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 33 Thanks: 12 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	a gunsmith friend suggested that it might be a prototype ?

04-05-2020, 04:07 AM	#10
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 659 Thanks: 365 Thanked 1,178 Times in 394 Posts	Looks like a home made takedown lever as well. At least a poor fabrication. Hopefully this thing was free.

04-05-2020, 11:34 AM	#12
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	A Pretty Paper Weight!

04-05-2020, 06:39 PM	#13
CorporalGungee User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 33 Thanks: 12 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	pictures of strange features in this Luger I am just a beginner in taking pictures so I hope this will give everyone a idea of the strange things that I mention describing this Luger . Please note that a firing pin can not be installed in the breech block and it is not fully machined on the top and bottom . Attached Thumbnails

04-05-2020, 06:44 PM	#14
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Thanks for the pictures. Yes, the breech block is not "finished" and pretty much worthless. Ditto for the receiver. The take down lever is not complete, and non-functional. I'm sorry to say that only the frame and the rear part of the toggle, maybe the barrel would be useable. If possible, I'd return this purchase. If not, what do you want/expect to do with it? I'm curious as to what you might have paid for this , if you want to share. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-05-2020, 06:44 PM	#15
CorporalGungee User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 33 Thanks: 12 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	more pictures here is some more pictures that might show the issues that I describe better . Attached Thumbnails

04-05-2020, 06:50 PM	#16
CorporalGungee User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 33 Thanks: 12 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	https://www.gunbroker.com/item/853361144 I had paid $601.11 plus $25 shipping and $20 FFL dealer transfer . I had hopes of putting it together from parts that I have on hand , but this is deeper than I had expected .

04-06-2020, 10:32 AM	#18
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Yes, send it back! The seller was less than honest in his description "toggles work"! Impossible without the rear hole! Even if you added the rear hole, you have no idea if this unfinished receiver is heat treated at all! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-06-2020, 03:47 PM	#19
CorporalGungee User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 33 Thanks: 12 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	the FFL Dealer that I bought it from has offered to take it back for refund of purchase price "only" , no shipping costs either way

04-06-2020, 03:52 PM	#20
Mister Sunshine User Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Cherry Valley, Ca. Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts	All I can say is "OUCH". I saw a contract Luger in a gun shop, Finish I think but not sure, with two non matching small parts for $600 but it was shooter and in good condition. Send the head ache back to the crook.