refinished 1906?

jeb111 · 02-26-2021, 12:55 PM

I spotted a 1906 AE at a small out of town gunstore which I am really interested in but need a couple questions answered. First I am pretty sure the finish is original, it is BUG proofed an they are clearly visible although seem to be lightly struck. Thing that gives me pause is the strawing seems more faded so its wear doesn't seem to match up with wear on rest of gun. The finish looks great to my untrained eye I would call it better than 95%. Clerk wasn't much help as he didn't know much about this particular Luger's history or Lugers in general. What are some real tell tale signs of refinish, I know this has been gone over on the forum hundreds of times but couldn't find anything in archives. Also the grips if they aren't #ed is that a big deal as with firing pin? The #'s I did see did match, the clerk flipped out a bit when he thought I was trying to take it apart which I wasn't but take down lever was half way down and lip from sideplate ws exposed so I told him somebody didn't put it back together right. I just don't see enough Lugers in person to feel 100% confident in my knowledge maybe only 80%. but If everything checks out it is a great pistol one I have wanted for a long time. Price at 3300 seemed okay. Appreciate any feedback, tried to get a Brazilian few weeks back but that fell through. I know being impatient is a negative so I am doing my best to hold it together. I will check back near the end of the day, need to get back to work, ha ha might need the dough!

Edward Tinker · 02-26-2021, 01:05 PM

there is a write up in the FAQ

$3300 sounds high for a 1906 - although the nic er the shape, the higher the price.

That said, and no offense, but if you think 3300 is a good price, but aren't sure if its been reblued, I'd study a bit more. Try to go to some big shows where you can see numerous lugers. Find out if someone from Wyoming collects and will let you visit.

Heinz · 02-26-2021, 01:16 PM

Photos are really helpful
A few hints, take a small, bright flashlight. You should be able to see traces of brown oxidation through the 100-year-old finish if original. The straw will naturally fade over 100 years. Remember this is a rust blue based on oxidation. It should not look like 1950s S&W and Colt blues. The crown of the muzzle should NOT be blued.
All of the edges should be sharp and not rounded and you should see a slight 'halo" around the barrel and proof stamps applied after the gun was blued. Check the FAQ section here for example and more hints.
Remember, tuition at Luger U can be expensive. Do your homework

Thor · 02-26-2021, 02:35 PM

Also bright sunlight can show patina as well on an original gun, love to know the SN so I can check my list I have done 30 Lugers and shorter barrel 9s in 1906 format.

jeb111 · 02-26-2021, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

there is a write up in the FAQ

$3300 sounds high for a 1906 - although the nic er the shape, the higher the price.

That said, and no offense, but if you think 3300 is a good price, but aren't sure if its been reblued, I'd study a bit more. Try to go to some big shows where you can see numerous lugers. Find out if someone from Wyoming collects and will let you visit.

No offense taken at all, I thought 3300 a bit high but clerk said there was no wiggle room at all. So thinking if pistol was 100% correct I would be willing to stretch. My achilles heal has been not getting to look at enough Lugers in person. This was only the second 1906 AE I ever held. Gun shows locally are small, very lucky to see a Luger at any and larger ones say held in bigger towns like Denver are flooded with black guns, nice, but don't help when your interest lies elsewhere. The only local guy I new who claimed he had a huge Luger collection I think in the end was pulling my chain. So I rely on books which I have many and this forum. I am pretty certain of the pistols authenticity but I know there are some incredible refinishes out there as all of you guys know and I read how sometimes it's hard for experts to tell. In the end I wont buy anything if there is a small red flag. If I don't get it it won't be the end of the world, lived my whole life so far without one. We'll see.

Doubs · 02-26-2021, 08:04 PM

Unless the American Eagle is important, there are model 1906 Lugers available with all matching numbers in great condition for a lot less than $3300.

I just checked Simpson Ltd and they offer a 1906 DWM Luger made for the Swiss for $1995. It has 95% original finish with 60% straw and an excellent bore. All matching with the Swiss cross-in-shield over the chamber. https://simpsonltd.com/dwm-1906-switzerland-z41358/

To my eye the 1906 is the most pleasing of all Luger models. A person could specialize in them.

jeb111 · 02-26-2021, 08:13 PM

Thanks Heinz and Thor, I reread the FAQ and had a question about machine marks, should any be visible on an AE like a military issue? Also I read about a red dot in the safety dimple. Should they be there or did I misread post. I've looked at countless pics on this forum and online dealers and that has helped to educate me. Talked to clerk this afternoon but he told me the owner was out and he was the only one to answer questions. He said he will have him call me back. I don't mind the 100 mile plus drive up to take a closer look. Obviously I'd have to if I want to buy the pistol. If I go I'll be taking my maglite!

jeb111 · 02-26-2021, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubs

Unless the American Eagle is important, there are model 1906 Lugers available with all matching numbers in great condition for a lot less than $3300.

I just checked Simpson Ltd and they offer a 1906 DWM Luger made for the Swiss for $1995. It has 95% original finish with 60% straw and an excellent bore. All matching with the Swiss cross-in-shield over the chamber. https://simpsonltd.com/dwm-1906-switzerland-z41358/

To my eye the 1906 is the most pleasing of all Luger models. A person could specialize in them.

Thanks Doubs, you know what if this deal doesn't work out I will have to give that Swiss a serious consideration. Didn't notice that one at Simpson because I have been so focused on an AE but I am open to another 1906, tried to get a Brazilian a few weeks back (pistol not wax) and it fell through. So I'm a little flexible.
Thanks
Jim

Thor · 02-27-2021, 12:48 PM

Rust Blued Lugers General Information
Luger reblues, some helpful hints to avoid getting taken to the cleaners. Things to know and avoid. These comments apply to RUST BLUED Luger pistols that have been reblued (usually salt blued with shiny finishes)
1. ALL Mausers from 1937 (prior to "t" block production) back to the beginning, K dates, G Dates, 1936 and 1937 to the t block and
all DWM, Erfurt and Simson Lugers would have been rust blued with straw parts.
2. The top of the INSIDE of the frame (with the cannon section removed, that is the barrelled receiver and toggle assembly) is going to be "in the white steel, a blued one is an alarm bell, no bueno.
3. The inside of the magazine well, take the grips off and pull the mag, should be "in the white" if it is blue on these early guns, no bueno, YIKES, reblue
4. Is the GESICHERT got paint in it. DWM, and Erfurts will have a tan color paint, Mauser's tend to be lighter, an off or dirty white color. Reblues a lot of time miss putting paint in.
5. Lay the Luger on its side, safety up, look at the big flat area in front of the safety lever. Move your head up and down. Does it look FLAT or WAVY? Wavy, no bueno (no good) A lot of rebluers will not get this right and make a slight wave in the metal.
6. Are the edges fairy crisp, not rounded over. A lot of bubba reblues will round these over, the Germans did not do this. Some are very bad. A lot of time the rebluers will mar some of the markings by over buffing.
7. Take a rust blued Luger out into the sunlight, you probably will some darker patina under the bluing this is correct for an original finish.
8. The inside of the receiver forks and bottom of them will be "in the white", no bueno if blued.
9. Straw parts will be worn to white in the normal places. The bottom of the safety lever may be worn by the thumb going across the bottom of it, same with the right side of the trigger from the trigger finger going across it. Ejectors and mag buttons and take down lever usually dont show much wear.
10. Bluing worn off. The sides of the muzzle bands at the front of the barrel should show some wear as should the top of the side plate island and the end of the two frame rails (right and left sides). Muzzle should be in the white.
11. Avoid high pressure sales, take pictures, study the markings and proof marks to make sure they are correct.
12. Also look at the number fonts to make sure all the numbered parts are matching fonts, many will use parts from different Lugers with the same numbers to fake a matching gun.
13. Take your time in purchasing
14. Also be aware that commercial variations will have a DIFFERENT number system with different placement areas than an Army model.
There are other things to look for but generally, get smart with books and have patience with your search. Knowledge of current Luger values will make you a more informed hunter of these fantastic firearms.

Fla.Mallard · 02-27-2021, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thor

Rust Blued Lugers General Information
Luger reblues, some helpful hints to avoid getting taken to the cleaners. Things to know and avoid. These comments apply to RUST BLUED Luger pistols that have been reblued (usually salt blued with shiny finishes)

Thanks a bunch for the finer points listed.

Allen Brett · 03-10-2021, 06:13 PM

I live in Casper, assume you are closer to Cheyenne? I only have a few Lugers myself and nothing special. There is a guy named "Jeff" here who has an unbelievable collection which I have seen myself. The pistols, rifles, bayonets and so forth have been collected by Jeff and his father for over 50 years. He knows exactly what he is looking at and buys/sells at the big shows like Tulsa, Denver, etc. If you are closer to Casper I am sure he would be excited to try and help you out.

jeb111 · 03-10-2021, 08:12 PM

Thanks Allen, that might be an option if Jeff was so willing. I actually live in Cody and the LGS I was talking about is in Montana. Was just thinking about my find and had left several messages with gun store clerk to ask owner to call me or just to find out if I came back to look at the AE would he disassemble it for me or allow me to just so I can get a super good look. Never heard back. I wouldn't think I was asking too much considering the price. My AE is out there somewhere, like I said in a earlier post I just don't get to see as many Lugers as I need to gain the knowledge I'm after.

Allen Brett · 03-10-2021, 09:26 PM

I can understand the clerk having to wait on the manager however, there should be no reason why they would not allow you to do a field strip. I would compare that to a used car lot that wouldn't allow you to look under the hood. There is also a guy in Gillette that had a bunch of Lugers at the last gun show here in Casper. He had purchased all of the firearms from an estate with another guy. He had 14 Lugers from pre WWI thru WWII Good luck in your search!

jeb111 · 03-11-2021, 09:07 AM

I need to keep an eye on gun shows in Casper. There is a pretty good one in Billings every few months where a guy usually has a table with a dozen or so Lugers most of which aren’t for sale. He had a 1906 Brazilian that I should have bought, which I tried later to get but the old saying “you snooze you lose” applied.

jeb111 · 03-11-2021, 09:11 AM

Just saw show coming up weekend of 19th in Casper, I’ll try and make that one!

02-26-2021, 12:55 PM	#1
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	refinished 1906? I spotted a 1906 AE at a small out of town gunstore which I am really interested in but need a couple questions answered. First I am pretty sure the finish is original, it is BUG proofed an they are clearly visible although seem to be lightly struck. Thing that gives me pause is the strawing seems more faded so its wear doesn't seem to match up with wear on rest of gun. The finish looks great to my untrained eye I would call it better than 95%. Clerk wasn't much help as he didn't know much about this particular Luger's history or Lugers in general. What are some real tell tale signs of refinish, I know this has been gone over on the forum hundreds of times but couldn't find anything in archives. Also the grips if they aren't #ed is that a big deal as with firing pin? The #'s I did see did match, the clerk flipped out a bit when he thought I was trying to take it apart which I wasn't but take down lever was half way down and lip from sideplate ws exposed so I told him somebody didn't put it back together right. I just don't see enough Lugers in person to feel 100% confident in my knowledge maybe only 80%. but If everything checks out it is a great pistol one I have wanted for a long time. Price at 3300 seemed okay. Appreciate any feedback, tried to get a Brazilian few weeks back but that fell through. I know being impatient is a negative so I am doing my best to hold it together. I will check back near the end of the day, need to get back to work, ha ha might need the dough!

02-26-2021, 01:05 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	there is a write up in the FAQ $3300 sounds high for a 1906 - although the nic er the shape, the higher the price. That said, and no offense, but if you think 3300 is a good price, but aren't sure if its been reblued, I'd study a bit more. Try to go to some big shows where you can see numerous lugers. Find out if someone from Wyoming collects and will let you visit. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-26-2021, 02:35 PM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Also bright sunlight can show patina as well on an original gun, love to know the SN so I can check my list I have done 30 Lugers and shorter barrel 9s in 1906 format. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email [email protected] ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

02-27-2021, 12:48 PM	#9
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Rust Blued Lugers General Information Luger reblues, some helpful hints to avoid getting taken to the cleaners. Things to know and avoid. These comments apply to RUST BLUED Luger pistols that have been reblued (usually salt blued with shiny finishes) 1. ALL Mausers from 1937 (prior to "t" block production) back to the beginning, K dates, G Dates, 1936 and 1937 to the t block and all DWM, Erfurt and Simson Lugers would have been rust blued with straw parts. 2. The top of the INSIDE of the frame (with the cannon section removed, that is the barrelled receiver and toggle assembly) is going to be "in the white steel, a blued one is an alarm bell, no bueno. 3. The inside of the magazine well, take the grips off and pull the mag, should be "in the white" if it is blue on these early guns, no bueno, YIKES, reblue 4. Is the GESICHERT got paint in it. DWM, and Erfurts will have a tan color paint, Mauser's tend to be lighter, an off or dirty white color. Reblues a lot of time miss putting paint in. 5. Lay the Luger on its side, safety up, look at the big flat area in front of the safety lever. Move your head up and down. Does it look FLAT or WAVY? Wavy, no bueno (no good) A lot of rebluers will not get this right and make a slight wave in the metal. 6. Are the edges fairy crisp, not rounded over. A lot of bubba reblues will round these over, the Germans did not do this. Some are very bad. A lot of time the rebluers will mar some of the markings by over buffing. 7. Take a rust blued Luger out into the sunlight, you probably will some darker patina under the bluing this is correct for an original finish. 8. The inside of the receiver forks and bottom of them will be "in the white", no bueno if blued. 9. Straw parts will be worn to white in the normal places. The bottom of the safety lever may be worn by the thumb going across the bottom of it, same with the right side of the trigger from the trigger finger going across it. Ejectors and mag buttons and take down lever usually dont show much wear. 10. Bluing worn off. The sides of the muzzle bands at the front of the barrel should show some wear as should the top of the side plate island and the end of the two frame rails (right and left sides). Muzzle should be in the white. 11. Avoid high pressure sales, take pictures, study the markings and proof marks to make sure they are correct. 12. Also look at the number fonts to make sure all the numbered parts are matching fonts, many will use parts from different Lugers with the same numbers to fake a matching gun. 13. Take your time in purchasing 14. Also be aware that commercial variations will have a DIFFERENT number system with different placement areas than an Army model. There are other things to look for but generally, get smart with books and have patience with your search. Knowledge of current Luger values will make you a more informed hunter of these fantastic firearms. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email [email protected] ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

02-26-2021, 01:16 PM	#3
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Photos are really helpful A few hints, take a small, bright flashlight. You should be able to see traces of brown oxidation through the 100-year-old finish if original. The straw will naturally fade over 100 years. Remember this is a rust blue based on oxidation. It should not look like 1950s S&W and Colt blues. The crown of the muzzle should NOT be blued. All of the edges should be sharp and not rounded and you should see a slight 'halo" around the barrel and proof stamps applied after the gun was blued. Check the FAQ section here for example and more hints. Remember, tuition at Luger U can be expensive. Do your homework

02-26-2021, 08:04 PM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,698 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,687 Times in 554 Posts	Unless the American Eagle is important, there are model 1906 Lugers available with all matching numbers in great condition for a lot less than $3300. I just checked Simpson Ltd and they offer a 1906 DWM Luger made for the Swiss for $1995. It has 95% original finish with 60% straw and an excellent bore. All matching with the Swiss cross-in-shield over the chamber. https://simpsonltd.com/dwm-1906-switzerland-z41358/ To my eye the 1906 is the most pleasing of all Luger models. A person could specialize in them.

02-26-2021, 08:13 PM	#7
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	Thanks Heinz and Thor, I reread the FAQ and had a question about machine marks, should any be visible on an AE like a military issue? Also I read about a red dot in the safety dimple. Should they be there or did I misread post. I've looked at countless pics on this forum and online dealers and that has helped to educate me. Talked to clerk this afternoon but he told me the owner was out and he was the only one to answer questions. He said he will have him call me back. I don't mind the 100 mile plus drive up to take a closer look. Obviously I'd have to if I want to buy the pistol. If I go I'll be taking my maglite!

03-10-2021, 06:13 PM	#11
Allen Brett User Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Central Wyoming, USA Posts: 49 Thanks: 78 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	I live in Casper, assume you are closer to Cheyenne? I only have a few Lugers myself and nothing special. There is a guy named "Jeff" here who has an unbelievable collection which I have seen myself. The pistols, rifles, bayonets and so forth have been collected by Jeff and his father for over 50 years. He knows exactly what he is looking at and buys/sells at the big shows like Tulsa, Denver, etc. If you are closer to Casper I am sure he would be excited to try and help you out.

03-10-2021, 08:12 PM	#12
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	Thanks Allen, that might be an option if Jeff was so willing. I actually live in Cody and the LGS I was talking about is in Montana. Was just thinking about my find and had left several messages with gun store clerk to ask owner to call me or just to find out if I came back to look at the AE would he disassemble it for me or allow me to just so I can get a super good look. Never heard back. I wouldn't think I was asking too much considering the price. My AE is out there somewhere, like I said in a earlier post I just don't get to see as many Lugers as I need to gain the knowledge I'm after.

03-10-2021, 09:26 PM	#13
Allen Brett User Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Central Wyoming, USA Posts: 49 Thanks: 78 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	I can understand the clerk having to wait on the manager however, there should be no reason why they would not allow you to do a field strip. I would compare that to a used car lot that wouldn't allow you to look under the hood. There is also a guy in Gillette that had a bunch of Lugers at the last gun show here in Casper. He had purchased all of the firearms from an estate with another guy. He had 14 Lugers from pre WWI thru WWII Good luck in your search!

03-11-2021, 09:07 AM	#14
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	I need to keep an eye on gun shows in Casper. There is a pretty good one in Billings every few months where a guy usually has a table with a dozen or so Lugers most of which aren’t for sale. He had a 1906 Brazilian that I should have bought, which I tried later to get but the old saying “you snooze you lose” applied.

03-11-2021, 09:11 AM	#15
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	Just saw show coming up weekend of 19th in Casper, I’ll try and make that one!