Any port in a storm!

G.T. · 07-09-2021, 01:00 AM

Hi To all, I just finished up assembling a couple of toggle trains for future builds and I always try to find as nice of toggle link pins that i can, for the best fit, and as a result, best headspace possible!
Believe it or not, the worst part of the whole rebuild process is the removal, and re-installation of the middle toggle pin retaining pin. That nasty little one that you tap in on the LH toggle knob!...

.... I've found that a small nail set is the best choice for removal, but generally, the pin is destroyed and not reusable in any circumstance?
So, we have to make a pin! Sounds easy, but for some reason, it's a real challenge most of the time.
The print says, that the pin dia. is 1.5 MM or .0595" ok, try to find that at the hardware store! Plus, the hole is often slightly over for God knows why, and it adds to the problem because in this quest, .0005" is a big deal.. So, here is what i do. I first take a measurement of the hole with wire gauge drill bits, or sometimes, even a 1/16" bit will give you enough info to go forward. After you measure the hole, you can then take a small length of 01 or W1 drill rod close to the correct dia. (probably 1/16") and cut off about an inch. grind the ends flat, and chuck into a drill and using 220 W/D sandpaper sand a slight taper onto the drill rod end, all the while test fitting into the toggle retaining pin hole. Once you get about an 1/8" insertion, you can cut the pin end off and grind it to .270" in length... You should now be able to tap it in flush and hopefully if done correctly, tight!

Good luck, best to all, til....lat'r....GT...

Major Tom · 07-09-2021, 08:30 AM

I've only had to replace one retaining pin and got that online. It fit rather snugly. The original one had dropped out and was 'lost' to the demons on the shop floor!

tomaustin · 07-09-2021, 01:05 PM

G.T., did the original craftsman make a conscious choice for that particular diameter pin..? the obvious answer would seem to be "yes" because they made so many pistols, all alike...which begs the question, why? does this yield a better product..? is the adjacent wall thickness going to be fragile if a larger diameter pin is used...? or, was the design group just using up stock diameter because they had produced it incorrectly in the first place and had a major pile of it on the racks...?

G.T. · 07-09-2021, 11:31 PM

Hi Tom, Not too awful many feet of that wire, would make thousands of those little pins? And if made like wire, they would have a very accurate inexhaustible supply at their disposal? I think the retaining pin hole in the knob was probably exactly the same as the pin, a slight to medium interference fit would be the result. So, what this leads me to believe, the pin fit snugly in the hole, and then was upset slightly from the top or bottom as I've seen signs of the pin touching the receiver when the toggle is flat on the receiver rail?... The oversize holes are probably the result of forced pin fit, with pins that were too hard, or someone trying to make it something it wasn't and drilled or reamed it to a more friendly size?... Hard to say, as for most of my Luger repair career, I've installed any pin I thought would fit well enough to not fail... I really didn't give it much analytical thought? Until now...

... best to all, til....lat'r....GT
BTW, the print calls for a 1.5MM pin, and that was probably the Germans 1/16" which at the time was probably in good supply for all types of manufacture? maybe even still is in Europe? Our forum family overseas would have to weigh in on this... Best, GT

DonVoigt · 07-12-2021, 05:02 PM

1.5mm is a reasonable size for a small pin; roughly equivalent to 1/16" in the English system.

I have no doubt that it was chosen as it was sufficient, and of the appropriate "standard" and readily available size.

tomaustin · 07-12-2021, 06:28 PM

as we say down here in Texas...taco bueno..!!

07-09-2021, 01:00 AM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Any port in a storm! Hi To all, I just finished up assembling a couple of toggle trains for future builds and I always try to find as nice of toggle link pins that i can, for the best fit, and as a result, best headspace possible! Believe it or not, the worst part of the whole rebuild process is the removal, and re-installation of the middle toggle pin retaining pin. That nasty little one that you tap in on the LH toggle knob!....... I've found that a small nail set is the best choice for removal, but generally, the pin is destroyed and not reusable in any circumstance? So, we have to make a pin! Sounds easy, but for some reason, it's a real challenge most of the time. The print says, that the pin dia. is 1.5 MM or .0595" ok, try to find that at the hardware store! Plus, the hole is often slightly over for God knows why, and it adds to the problem because in this quest, .0005" is a big deal.. So, here is what i do. I first take a measurement of the hole with wire gauge drill bits, or sometimes, even a 1/16" bit will give you enough info to go forward. After you measure the hole, you can then take a small length of 01 or W1 drill rod close to the correct dia. (probably 1/16") and cut off about an inch. grind the ends flat, and chuck into a drill and using 220 W/D sandpaper sand a slight taper onto the drill rod end, all the while test fitting into the toggle retaining pin hole. Once you get about an 1/8" insertion, you can cut the pin end off and grind it to .270" in length... You should now be able to tap it in flush and hopefully if done correctly, tight! Good luck, best to all, til....lat'r....GT...

07-09-2021, 08:30 AM	#2
Major Tom User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: S.E. Iowa Posts: 484 Thanks: 533 Thanked 227 Times in 124 Posts	I've only had to replace one retaining pin and got that online. It fit rather snugly. The original one had dropped out and was 'lost' to the demons on the shop floor! __________________ I Build Custom Pistol Boxes

07-09-2021, 11:31 PM	#4
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	accuracy? Hi Tom, Not too awful many feet of that wire, would make thousands of those little pins? And if made like wire, they would have a very accurate inexhaustible supply at their disposal? I think the retaining pin hole in the knob was probably exactly the same as the pin, a slight to medium interference fit would be the result. So, what this leads me to believe, the pin fit snugly in the hole, and then was upset slightly from the top or bottom as I've seen signs of the pin touching the receiver when the toggle is flat on the receiver rail?... The oversize holes are probably the result of forced pin fit, with pins that were too hard, or someone trying to make it something it wasn't and drilled or reamed it to a more friendly size?... Hard to say, as for most of my Luger repair career, I've installed any pin I thought would fit well enough to not fail... I really didn't give it much analytical thought? Until now... ... best to all, til....lat'r....GT BTW, the print calls for a 1.5MM pin, and that was probably the Germans 1/16" which at the time was probably in good supply for all types of manufacture? maybe even still is in Europe? Our forum family overseas would have to weigh in on this... Best, GT

07-12-2021, 05:02 PM	#5
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	1.5mm is a reasonable size for a small pin; roughly equivalent to 1/16" in the English system. I have no doubt that it was chosen as it was sufficient, and of the appropriate "standard" and readily available size. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-09-2021, 01:05 PM	#3
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	G.T., did the original craftsman make a conscious choice for that particular diameter pin..? the obvious answer would seem to be "yes" because they made so many pistols, all alike...which begs the question, why? does this yield a better product..? is the adjacent wall thickness going to be fragile if a larger diameter pin is used...? or, was the design group just using up stock diameter because they had produced it incorrectly in the first place and had a major pile of it on the racks...?

07-12-2021, 06:28 PM	#6
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	as we say down here in Texas...taco bueno..!!