"The Dirty Dozen"?

Norme · 11-27-2021, 02:22 PM

It's been a little quiet on this forum the last few days, maybe all that drinking had something to do with it! As those of you who collect Imperial Navy Lugers have probably realized by now, many of the "matching" magazines out there are fake, and the fakers have even gotten around to faking non-matching Navy mags as these too are worth a premium.
Here's a little quiz I've put together which you can amuse yourselves with while you digest all those turkey left-overs. Just to make it interesting I've included two authentic magazines. Don't blame me for the photos, I didn't take a single one!
I'll be back in a couple of days with the answers. I was thinking about offering a generous cash prize to the first member posting the correct answers but figured the he, or she, would find that too insulting and would prefer the glory instead.
Norm

Norme · 11-27-2021, 02:24 PM

Last two photos.

cirelaw · 11-27-2021, 02:50 PM

The wood looks correct!

gunnertwo · 11-27-2021, 04:05 PM

Initial observations from a novice, the small font size is not a style I've seen. So, I believe they are spurious (big word) :-)

G2

gunbugs · 11-27-2021, 04:17 PM

I'll say serial number 3914 and 4298. If I'm right, I'll say why I think so.

jeb111 · 11-27-2021, 04:33 PM

I'll go with 3914 but I'm stuck on the second one 4298 looks good but I wouldn't bet my life on it. Great idea for a post some of the more experienced members should do this more often to test our skills. Thanks Norm.
Jim

George Anderson · 11-27-2021, 04:48 PM

Closed top "4"s and flat top "3"s are dead giveaways.

Edward Tinker · 11-27-2021, 05:00 PM

Nice teaching item Norm!

I used to go visit my friend Bill Munis and he would show me different guns - he'd ask me which one was a reblue or fake (they never were) but some were very hard to tell. Too hard of metal equaled lighter stamps, etc.

With police lugers, I see magazines that are 'renumbered' - not the faking I see above, but new numbers. How many are done in America? A lot I'd guess...

Norme · 11-27-2021, 05:03 PM

I tried to post the photos in numerical order but they seem to have been shuffled somewhat in the uploading process. Here are the numbers as pictured.
Mag 1 #918
Mag 2 #3081 (2nd photo, number not visible)
Mag 3 #3439
Mag 4 #3914
Mag 5 #4298
Mag 6 #4729
Mag 7 #7382
Mag 8 #8123
Mag 9 #3483
Mag 10 #76937
Mag 11 #8209
Mag 12 #9263
Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to identify the TWO authentic magazines.
Norm

ithacaartist · 11-27-2021, 09:08 PM

Do I spy the elusive Russian Capture mag, second to last?

MFC · 11-28-2021, 12:17 AM

Mag 2 side view looks good
Mag 9 #3483

G.T. · 11-28-2021, 01:38 AM

I'm going with #9 and #12..... best, GT...

Lugerdoc · 11-28-2021, 08:00 AM

Best I can tell from photos, I'd agree with GT --- #3483 & 4298. TH

spripple33 · 11-28-2021, 07:22 PM

I agree with Mike C. #2 & #9.
-Jason

Pistol · 11-28-2021, 09:03 PM

I see old numbers under new numbers for #12. Plus the crown looks off and the numbers are too deep.

I will go with #9 and #2....#2 side view looks good as others point out, and we know some tubes are blued for navy mags.

#5 looks ok, but the 4 looks closed and not open.....but numbers also looked double struck at least on the 2.

Norme · 11-29-2021, 12:11 PM

Well here goes, the moment you've all been waiting for, the two correct magazines:
#2 Mag #3081 (Blued tube)
#9 Mag #3483
The winners are:
#1 MFC (Mike C.)
#2 spripple33 (Jason)
#3 Pistol
Congratulations you guys!
Norm

Norme · 11-29-2021, 12:31 PM

The red flags:
#1 Mag #918, C/M inverted, numbers stamped cross-wise and too small.
#2 Mag #3081, this one is legit. I'll be discussing blued Imperial magazines in a separate thread.
#3 Mag #3439, C/M inverted, numbers too small.
#4 Mag #3914, Flat-topped #3 and closed #4.
#5 Mag #4298, closed #4.
#6 Mag #4729, closed #4.
#7 Mag #7382, missing C/M and flat-topped #3.
#8 Mag #8123, take your pick!
#9 Mag #3483, legit.
#10 Mag #76937, C/M stamped at wrong end, the 5 digit serial # is too small and stamped cross-wise.
#11 Mag #8209, C/M missing & numbers inverted.
#12 Mag #9263, numbers too small and flat-topped #3.
Norm

jeb111 · 11-29-2021, 05:50 PM

Back to the books for me! That was fun and very informative thanks for posting Norm!
Jim

gunbugs · 11-29-2021, 08:24 PM

Excellent lesson. Thanks!

cirelaw · 11-29-2021, 08:40 PM

Does the smoothness or quality of the wood have anything to do with its authenticity?

11-28-2021, 08:00 AM	#13
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Best I can tell from photos, I'd agree with GT --- #3483 & 4298. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

11-29-2021, 08:40 PM	#20
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Does the smoothness or quality of the wood have anything to do with its authenticity? Attached Thumbnails

11-27-2021, 02:22 PM	#1
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	"The Dirty Dozen"? It's been a little quiet on this forum the last few days, maybe all that drinking had something to do with it! As those of you who collect Imperial Navy Lugers have probably realized by now, many of the "matching" magazines out there are fake, and the fakers have even gotten around to faking non-matching Navy mags as these too are worth a premium. Here's a little quiz I've put together which you can amuse yourselves with while you digest all those turkey left-overs. Just to make it interesting I've included two authentic magazines. Don't blame me for the photos, I didn't take a single one! I'll be back in a couple of days with the answers. I was thinking about offering a generous cash prize to the first member posting the correct answers but figured the he, or she, would find that too insulting and would prefer the glory instead. Norm Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

11-27-2021, 02:24 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Last two photos. Attached Thumbnails

11-27-2021, 02:50 PM	#3
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	The wood looks correct!

11-27-2021, 04:05 PM	#4
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	Initial observations from a novice, the small font size is not a style I've seen. So, I believe they are spurious (big word) :-) G2

11-27-2021, 04:17 PM	#5
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 659 Thanks: 365 Thanked 1,178 Times in 394 Posts	I'll say serial number 3914 and 4298. If I'm right, I'll say why I think so.

11-27-2021, 04:33 PM	#6
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	I'll go with 3914 but I'm stuck on the second one 4298 looks good but I wouldn't bet my life on it. Great idea for a post some of the more experienced members should do this more often to test our skills. Thanks Norm. Jim

11-27-2021, 04:48 PM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Closed top "4"s and flat top "3"s are dead giveaways.

11-27-2021, 05:00 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Nice teaching item Norm! I used to go visit my friend Bill Munis and he would show me different guns - he'd ask me which one was a reblue or fake (they never were) but some were very hard to tell. Too hard of metal equaled lighter stamps, etc. With police lugers, I see magazines that are 'renumbered' - not the faking I see above, but new numbers. How many are done in America? A lot I'd guess...

11-27-2021, 05:03 PM	#9
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	I tried to post the photos in numerical order but they seem to have been shuffled somewhat in the uploading process. Here are the numbers as pictured. Mag 1 #918 Mag 2 #3081 (2nd photo, number not visible) Mag 3 #3439 Mag 4 #3914 Mag 5 #4298 Mag 6 #4729 Mag 7 #7382 Mag 8 #8123 Mag 9 #3483 Mag 10 #76937 Mag 11 #8209 Mag 12 #9263 Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to identify the TWO authentic magazines. Norm

11-27-2021, 09:08 PM	#10
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	Do I spy the elusive Russian Capture mag, second to last? __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

11-28-2021, 12:17 AM	#11
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Mag 2 side view looks good Mag 9 #3483 __________________ Mike C.

11-28-2021, 01:38 AM	#12
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	my guess I'm going with #9 and #12..... best, GT...

11-28-2021, 07:22 PM	#14
spripple33 User Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Gettysburg, PA Posts: 85 Thanks: 137 Thanked 167 Times in 54 Posts	I agree with Mike C. #2 & #9. -Jason

11-28-2021, 09:03 PM	#15
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 428 Thanks: 448 Thanked 220 Times in 99 Posts	I see old numbers under new numbers for #12. Plus the crown looks off and the numbers are too deep. I will go with #9 and #2....#2 side view looks good as others point out, and we know some tubes are blued for navy mags. #5 looks ok, but the 4 looks closed and not open.....but numbers also looked double struck at least on the 2.

11-29-2021, 12:11 PM	#16
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Well here goes, the moment you've all been waiting for, the two correct magazines: #2 Mag #3081 (Blued tube) #9 Mag #3483 The winners are: #1 MFC (Mike C.) #2 spripple33 (Jason) #3 Pistol Congratulations you guys! Norm

11-29-2021, 12:31 PM	#17
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	The red flags: #1 Mag #918, C/M inverted, numbers stamped cross-wise and too small. #2 Mag #3081, this one is legit. I'll be discussing blued Imperial magazines in a separate thread. #3 Mag #3439, C/M inverted, numbers too small. #4 Mag #3914, Flat-topped #3 and closed #4. #5 Mag #4298, closed #4. #6 Mag #4729, closed #4. #7 Mag #7382, missing C/M and flat-topped #3. #8 Mag #8123, take your pick! #9 Mag #3483, legit. #10 Mag #76937, C/M stamped at wrong end, the 5 digit serial # is too small and stamped cross-wise. #11 Mag #8209, C/M missing & numbers inverted. #12 Mag #9263, numbers too small and flat-topped #3. Norm

11-29-2021, 05:50 PM	#18
jeb111 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2018 Location: wyoming Posts: 277 Thanks: 712 Thanked 331 Times in 133 Posts	Back to the books for me! That was fun and very informative thanks for posting Norm! Jim

11-29-2021, 08:24 PM	#19
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 659 Thanks: 365 Thanked 1,178 Times in 394 Posts	Excellent lesson. Thanks!