Finaly, I got my 1917 Erfurt Luger's pictures.

ERFURT_LUGER · 03-25-2004, 01:04 PM

Hi folks!

I finaly got my pictures of my Erfurt Luger 1917. Like I said before, it has not been cleaned yet.

But there he his.

I would like to know more about the Offiz. Stellv. Barthel on the handle. Does anybody know about this?

So there is the pictures.

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kit_luger.jpg

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger01.jpg

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_02.jpg

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_03.jpg

I wish it will work. Tell me if it does'nt work.

Hu

John Sabato · 03-25-2004, 01:34 PM

It worked very well! Excellent photos. Thanks for sharing them with us.

I have thumbnailed them and presented them for you here. Click on the thumbnail photo to see it full size.

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kit_luger.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kit_luger.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger01.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger01.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_02.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_02.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_03.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_03.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

ERFURT_LUGER · 03-25-2004, 01:43 PM

Thank you very much John.

Doubs · 03-25-2004, 02:02 PM

That's a very nice Erfurt and the markings make it even nicer. I'm envious!

If it's been mentioned already, please forgive me but DO NOT attach that stock to that Luger. It's in violation of National Firearms Act regulations and carries a stiff fine and jail term. It appears to be an Artillery stock and would be legal if attached to an original Artillery Luger but is ILLEGAL on any other Luger including a Navy model.

tudorbug · 03-25-2004, 02:51 PM

Doubs:

I had exactly the same concern in mind when I saw the photos, but ERFURT_LUGER looks as if he is in Montreal. The laws there may be different. Or maybe not.

Btw, greetings from way up north in Macon. :-))

John Sabato · 03-25-2004, 03:00 PM

If anyone has the information on the legality of stocked pistols in Canada, please post it and your reference here...

Maybe Kidvett?? are you listening?

ERFURT_LUGER · 03-25-2004, 03:00 PM

...

George Anderson · 03-25-2004, 09:36 PM

Hu, you have an excellent and rare marked Luger. I will see if your man is listed in any of my Rangliste. As a Offizier Stellvertreter is something equivalent to a temporary officer or battlefield appointment your guy may not appear in the Ranglisten unless he was later commissioned as a full officer rank.

kidvett · 03-25-2004, 10:32 PM

Erfurt Luger, John & Others...Hello !

Quite a beautifull & scarce marked pistol you have there. I'm a bit surprised as it's a late War pistol with a high production year. I would have though that Officer marked pistols would have been in the 1910-14 range.....but I'm no expert on those so I'll leave that question to Imperial Era guys.....

On the Legal stuff now:

NO restriction in Canada as to stock attachement to a pistol.

Classification of pistols as follows:

Prohibited Class: all 25 & 32 Cals + all handguns with barrel lenghts of 105mm & under ( 4 inch Military P08 is 101-102 mm so Prohibited )

Restricted Class: all handguns with barrels of 105mm and more....

Appropriate Class Permits needed by owners of respective categories.....Now here's the catch:

Grandfathering: both the pistol & the owned MUST have the, lets say Prohibited Class, Permit before February 1995 to be considered grandfathered. Means that a guy that never had a 4 inch pistol Registered under his name before Feb 95 will never be able to legally possess one. On the same matter if a 4 inch Luger was not registered before the Feb 95 date, it will never be legal to own as it cannot be registered !!

BUT !! an unregistered Restricted Class pistol CAN still be registered.....that's why guys are putting 107mm barrels on Military P08....to be able to registrer them ( in spite of the lost Collector value ) Kind of better than being in possession of a non-legal pistol or even worse having to give it to the autorities for destruction......

Those latest Gun Laws were passed in December 1998 and so doing the Canadian Government has assured himself that a lot of handguns will be eventually destroyed as the youngest group of people observed with the Prohibited Class Permits are about 35-40 years old ( like me ) and those Permits cannot be transfered to your kids when you're gone....So those Artefacts & War Trophies will eventually be destroyed forever.....

Erfurt Luger: if you want me to give you more info on your piece and/or specific aspects of the Law, send me a PM.....I'll be glad to help !!

Hope this is not too much confusing,

MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Gothmog · 03-25-2004, 11:15 PM

Hi guys, most of what Kidvett posted is quite right, however, it is possible to pass prohibited pistols on to a family member (brother sister spouse, child) provided that pistol is built prior to 1946, and of course was registered in the system as described previously. In this case, the new owner is grandfathered specifically for the pistol transferred to them (only) and may not purchase other prohibited handguns ... unless pre 1946 and they come from a direct relative.

So, many of these prohib class pistols may continue to be owned in Canada ... the more contemporary ones may well be lost, however, unless the laws are changed some day soon.

Doubs · 03-26-2004, 02:14 AM

Oops..... I didn't notice the Montreal origins of the posting. Sorry.

ERFURT_LUGER · 03-26-2004, 10:38 AM

Thank you Mark.

So from what I understood, if IÃ¢??m married, and my sister is not, and my grandfather work at Walt Disney, and if only IÃ¢??m wearing Nike shoes. That means IÃ¢??m allowed to have a chance of, if my mother and my sons will go to war, to have a permit forÃ¢?Â¦ HAHAHA IÃ¢??m fooling around. But seriously, IÃ¢??m not sure if I understood.

Do you guys have any ideas of what the value to a Luger like the one I have? (See pictures on the top of this page)

It must be hard to tell the value.

Thanks to you all for your help. I really appreciate it.

Hu

George Anderson · 03-26-2004, 10:42 AM

Hu, I would pay over $1000 for it.

John Sabato · 03-26-2004, 11:09 AM

ERFURT_LUGER,

Please contact lugerforum member Kidvett above by clicking on the icon in his message where it shows two persons shaking hands in front of an envelope. As a legal collector in Canada, he is the best one to advise you until you can obtain Canadian legal counsel.

The private message system will permit private conversation between the two of you and he will best be able to advise you on the legal status of your gun and how to remedy anything that is wrong if it is at all possible...

You can access your private messages by clicking on the "my profile" link at the top of any discussion page.

Further discussion of who and where you are in the public part of this forum is not advisable until you have taken corrective action. I would hate to see you in trouble or have you lose this pistol to the blast furnace...

The very best of luck on your dilemma...

kidvett · 03-26-2004, 11:33 AM

Hello,

John, thanks for the reference....

Hu, I can help if you want....but you got to let me know......There are ways to verify the status ( registration, transfer, export, etc ) of your pistol, but it's up to you.....

I sent you a PM...

MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

John Sabato · 03-26-2004, 03:56 PM

Mark (Kidvett) please check your PM's... thanks.

Dean · 03-26-2004, 11:22 PM

Those Canadian gun laws are depressing me.

ERFURT_LUGER · 05-08-2004, 03:25 AM

Yes... me too =(

03-25-2004, 01:04 PM	#1
ERFURT_LUGER User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Finaly, I got my 1917 Erfurt Luger's pictures. Hi folks! I finaly got my pictures of my Erfurt Luger 1917. Like I said before, it has not been cleaned yet. But there he his. I would like to know more about the Offiz. Stellv. Barthel on the handle. Does anybody know about this? So there is the pictures. http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kit_luger.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger01.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_02.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_03.jpg I wish it will work. Tell me if it does'nt work. Hu __________________ Hello There! =) Bonjour!

03-25-2004, 01:34 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	It worked very well! Excellent photos. Thanks for sharing them with us. I have thumbnailed them and presented them for you here. Click on the thumbnail photo to see it full size. <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kit_luger.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kit_luger.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger01.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger01.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_02.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_02.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_03.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_03.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-25-2004, 01:43 PM	#3
ERFURT_LUGER User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you very much John. __________________ Hello There! =) Bonjour!

03-25-2004, 03:00 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	If anyone has the information on the legality of stocked pistols in Canada, please post it and your reference here... Maybe Kidvett?? are you listening? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-25-2004, 03:00 PM	#7
ERFURT_LUGER User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	... __________________ Hello There! =) Bonjour!

03-25-2004, 02:02 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	That's a very nice Erfurt and the markings make it even nicer. I'm envious! If it's been mentioned already, please forgive me but DO NOT attach that stock to that Luger. It's in violation of National Firearms Act regulations and carries a stiff fine and jail term. It appears to be an Artillery stock and would be legal if attached to an original Artillery Luger but is ILLEGAL on any other Luger including a Navy model.

03-25-2004, 02:51 PM	#5
tudorbug Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 387 Thanks: 0 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts	Doubs: I had exactly the same concern in mind when I saw the photos, but ERFURT_LUGER looks as if he is in Montreal. The laws there may be different. Or maybe not. Btw, greetings from way up north in Macon. :-))

03-25-2004, 09:36 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Hu, you have an excellent and rare marked Luger. I will see if your man is listed in any of my Rangliste. As a Offizier Stellvertreter is something equivalent to a temporary officer or battlefield appointment your guy may not appear in the Ranglisten unless he was later commissioned as a full officer rank.

03-25-2004, 10:32 PM	#9
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Erfurt Luger, John & Others...Hello ! Quite a beautifull & scarce marked pistol you have there. I'm a bit surprised as it's a late War pistol with a high production year. I would have though that Officer marked pistols would have been in the 1910-14 range.....but I'm no expert on those so I'll leave that question to Imperial Era guys..... On the Legal stuff now: NO restriction in Canada as to stock attachement to a pistol. Classification of pistols as follows: Prohibited Class: all 25 & 32 Cals + all handguns with barrel lenghts of 105mm & under ( 4 inch Military P08 is 101-102 mm so Prohibited ) Restricted Class: all handguns with barrels of 105mm and more.... Appropriate Class Permits needed by owners of respective categories.....Now here's the catch: Grandfathering: both the pistol & the owned MUST have the, lets say Prohibited Class, Permit before February 1995 to be considered grandfathered. Means that a guy that never had a 4 inch pistol Registered under his name before Feb 95 will never be able to legally possess one. On the same matter if a 4 inch Luger was not registered before the Feb 95 date, it will never be legal to own as it cannot be registered !! BUT !! an unregistered Restricted Class pistol CAN still be registered.....that's why guys are putting 107mm barrels on Military P08....to be able to registrer them ( in spite of the lost Collector value ) Kind of better than being in possession of a non-legal pistol or even worse having to give it to the autorities for destruction...... Those latest Gun Laws were passed in December 1998 and so doing the Canadian Government has assured himself that a lot of handguns will be eventually destroyed as the youngest group of people observed with the Prohibited Class Permits are about 35-40 years old ( like me ) and those Permits cannot be transfered to your kids when you're gone....So those Artefacts & War Trophies will eventually be destroyed forever..... Erfurt Luger: if you want me to give you more info on your piece and/or specific aspects of the Law, send me a PM.....I'll be glad to help !! Hope this is not too much confusing, MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

03-25-2004, 11:15 PM	#10
Gothmog New User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi guys, most of what Kidvett posted is quite right, however, it is possible to pass prohibited pistols on to a family member (brother sister spouse, child) provided that pistol is built prior to 1946, and of course was registered in the system as described previously. In this case, the new owner is grandfathered specifically for the pistol transferred to them (only) and may not purchase other prohibited handguns ... unless pre 1946 and they come from a direct relative. So, many of these prohib class pistols may continue to be owned in Canada ... the more contemporary ones may well be lost, however, unless the laws are changed some day soon.

03-26-2004, 02:14 AM	#11
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	Oops..... I didn't notice the Montreal origins of the posting. Sorry.

03-26-2004, 10:38 AM	#12
ERFURT_LUGER User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you Mark. So from what I understood, if IÃ¢??m married, and my sister is not, and my grandfather work at Walt Disney, and if only IÃ¢??m wearing Nike shoes. That means IÃ¢??m allowed to have a chance of, if my mother and my sons will go to war, to have a permit forÃ¢?Â¦ HAHAHA IÃ¢??m fooling around. But seriously, IÃ¢??m not sure if I understood. Do you guys have any ideas of what the value to a Luger like the one I have? (See pictures on the top of this page) It must be hard to tell the value. Thanks to you all for your help. I really appreciate it. Hu __________________ Hello There! =) Bonjour!

03-26-2004, 10:42 AM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Hu, I would pay over $1000 for it.

03-26-2004, 11:09 AM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	ERFURT_LUGER, Please contact lugerforum member Kidvett above by clicking on the icon in his message where it shows two persons shaking hands in front of an envelope. As a legal collector in Canada, he is the best one to advise you until you can obtain Canadian legal counsel. The private message system will permit private conversation between the two of you and he will best be able to advise you on the legal status of your gun and how to remedy anything that is wrong if it is at all possible... You can access your private messages by clicking on the "my profile" link at the top of any discussion page. Further discussion of who and where you are in the public part of this forum is not advisable until you have taken corrective action. I would hate to see you in trouble or have you lose this pistol to the blast furnace... The very best of luck on your dilemma... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-26-2004, 11:33 AM	#15
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hello, John, thanks for the reference.... Hu, I can help if you want....but you got to let me know......There are ways to verify the status ( registration, transfer, export, etc ) of your pistol, but it's up to you..... I sent you a PM... MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

03-26-2004, 03:56 PM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Mark (Kidvett) please check your PM's... thanks. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-26-2004, 11:22 PM	#17
Dean User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: PA Posts: 132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Those Canadian gun laws are depressing me. __________________ Carpe Diem, Parabellum

05-08-2004, 03:25 AM	#18
ERFURT_LUGER User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes... me too =( __________________ Hello There! =) Bonjour!