1916 DWM

[coffeee]

I am trying to establish a value on this gun and this is my first time trying to load pictures so if you dont see pictures I am still trying....

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/100_1387.jpg

[RockinWR]

Coffeee,
* You have a very nice looking pistol w/ accessories shown. Congratulations.
* However, you do not mention whether this example is all matching(in/out), has a matching number mag, is grip strap unit marked, what the bore condition is, and whether it is fully functional. Further, what kind of a value are you looking for....Insurance/Replacement, Quick Sale, trade, Internet, Auction, etc.??
* Assuming all matching (except mag), uniform original unpitted 95% blue & 90% straw all over, no importer's mark, no 2nd mag, original DWM tool, & no surprises, I'd WAG $1100-$1400 as a ballpark, non-dealer sale price.
* MHO. <img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" />
Bob

[coffeee]

BOb,

thank you for replying. The Luger has all matching numbers inside and outside. Even the firing pin number matches. The Bore is like new.It fires extremley well. The Last time the luger was fired was in 1968. It has NEVER been stored in the holster since we have had it. (That causes holster wear and rust)

The luger also has two matching clips

[policeluger]

you need to look around a bit at some of the larger Luger dealers...your looking at a $2400 + total rig...beautiful, just great to see, and thanks for posting it here.

[John Sabato]

WOW! Me too. it is a GREAT looking rig... The white gloves are fitting for such a nice Luger... I wouldn't shoot it again, and don't use anything on the holster except a soft shoe brush and clean cloth...

Thanks for sharing photos of your Luger treasure...

[jamese]

Coffee,
Very nice rig,
I think $2,400 is high

Jim

[policeluger]

If you think it is high, you better check out what not only folks like Simpsons/Shattuck/River Bend and so on are asking, but also getting getting for a comlplete rig as mint and original as this one. You offer that rig here today and see how fast it will sell at or above the $2400 range. Rigs like this are hard to come by.

[George Anderson]

I feel that rig would be a hell of a value at $2500. And I'll prove it if it's for sale.

[coffeee]

Thank you all so much for replying to my post and I have enjoyed your kind remarks about this gun. However I am still in a dilema. As I am moving across the country and taking all my guns with me I need to insure them. As i inherited these guns I have no idea of their value. Can anyone give me an honest to god value for this gun at least for insurance purposes........

Again thank for all your help guys.....

[policeluger]

coffee...I think we did. I feel that this gun would not bring more then $2,800....but this is a real subjective thing, none of us have examined this gun in person, and with $2,800 I feel that you could buy a comparable rig and a few $ left over...just my opinion.

[aaarestorations]

Coffee
Do you happen to know what those four proof marks represent on the right side of your Luger? Very nice piece.
Thanks aaarestorations

[Ron Wood]

aaarestorations
Three of the four proof marks are individual inspector's marks and are rather like a signature. Each inspector had his own stamp (but the same stamp could have been used by more than one inspector, i.e. same initial but worked a different shift). There are no records of who the inspectors were, what inspectors worked what shift and which stamp they used, so there is no tracing the individual "meaning" of each stamp. The fourth stamp closest to the barrel (looks like an eagle) is a government firing proof assigned to DWM. If you go to the "Technical Information" section of the forum under "Markings" you can find several examples of various proof marks. The one on Coffeee's Luger closely resembles example #15 in that proof list.

[Dwight Gruber]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Ron Wood:
<strong>Each inspector had his own stamp (but the same stamp could have been used by more than one inspector, i.e. same initial but worked a different shift).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Ron,

My understanding is that each inspector had his own stamp, but it was exclusively his, that this is how the inspector's accountability was maintained. In the case of an identical initial, the junior inspector used an X or a Y.

Am I misinformed?

--Dwight

[Ron Wood]

Dwight,
I am sure you are correct. I have heard the same account about inspector stamps. It may be documented but I have no reference to verify it. Perhaps some of our experts can provide a reference.

I do know that some stamps were "recycled" or reused as they are found on different era Lugers.

Were the individual stamps tied to a specific manufacturing/assembly inspection with a unique inspector assigned for the duration of production, or could two senior inspectors with the same initials but responsible for a different assembly inspection use the same stamp? If the appropriate reference can be identified, perhaps these questions have already been answered.

Mostly what I was trying to point out is that there is no way to "read" or trace the individual inspector's stamp. This question of what do the individual proof marks represent is a recurring one and to the best of my knowledge all that can be said definitively is that they are inspector's marks, with no identified one-to-one correspondence with a particular inspection process.

I probably should have been this long winded in my other post, but I took a short-cut and stated a "could have" hypothetical example that in retrospect was not the best choice. Fortunately, observant individuals such as yourself are quick to spot sloppy statements. Thank you.

[Dwight Gruber]

Ron,

I found references to the Abnahmstempel mit Krone--Inspector's crowned stamp--in both Walter's "The Luger Book" (1986, p.124)and G�¶rtz & Bryans "German Small Arms Markings" (1997, pp.117-118).

Walter notes that all letters were used, with a surprisingly large proportion of the letter X; some letters appear with a bar beneath. He theorizes the X may be a substitute letter, or meant to distinguish between inspectors with same first initial. The bar may indicate the junior of two inspectors with same surname.

G�¶rtz & Bryans, translating from 1913 Inspection and Acceptance instructions, indicate that stamping was to be done by dies allotted to their respective officials [inspectors?]. Zinc sheet were kept with an impression of the Official's stamp, his name, and the date he started work at the arsenal. When he retired or was transferred, his stamp was to be returned and "signed in" on the zinc sheet.

This could account for the "recycling" you mention.

Every official was personally responsible for all examinations marked with his personal stamp. Inspectors acting under the an Official's supervision stamped parts with that official's stamp. It does appear that under this circumstance your conclusion has a basis in fact. That and, as you noted, there are no surviving documents to tie specific Inspectors to specific stamps.

I'm certain I read somewhere that the X was used by an inspector junior to one who had a surname with the same first initial, and that it was also used by inspectors who had not yet been assigned or received their personal stamp, but I have been trying for almost three weeks to find the citation without success.

--Dwight

[Ron Wood]

Great information, Dwight. You do excellent research, so I have no doubt you will turn up the missing pieces. I would like to help, but most of my references are in storage and I probably won't have access to them until this fall. So please forgive me if I "shoot from the hip" occasionally. Having to rely on memory is pretty â??iffyâ?� at best, and I find that my memory is less than razor sharp as time goes on.