Gun Control

[Herb]

> >
> >Anyone want to confirm this info?
> >
> >
> > Whether you agree or not, it's an interesting lesson in
> >history.
> >
> > Something to think about...
> >
> > In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
> > >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents,
> > unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> > exterminated.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915
> > to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend
> > themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > Germany established gun control in 1938 and from
> > 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were
> > unable to defend themselves were rounded up and
> > exterminated.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > China established gun control in 1935. From 1948
> > to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to
> > defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From
> > 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to
> > defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971
> > to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend
> > themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From
> > 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable
> > to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> > exterminated.
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in
> > the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million
> >
> > It has now been 12 months since gun owners in
> > Australia were forced by new law to surrender
> > 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their
> > own government, a program costing Australia
> > taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
> >
> > The first year results are now in:
> > Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent
> > Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent
> > Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent
> > (yes, 44 percent!)
> > In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with
> > firearms are now up 300 percent.
> > (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned
> > them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still
> > possess their guns!)
> >
> > While figures over the previous 25 years showed a
> > steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this
> > has changed drastically upward in the past 12
> > months,since the criminals now are guaranteed that
> > their prey is unarmed.
> > There has also been a dramatic increase in
> > break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY.
> > Australian politicians are at a loss to explain
> > how public safety has decreased, after such
> > monumental effort and expense was expended in
> > "successfully ridding Australian society of guns."
> > The Australian experience and the other historical
> > facts above prove it.
> >
> > You won't see this data on the American evening
> > news or hear our president, governors or other
> > politicians disseminating this information.
> >
> > Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives
> > and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only
> > the law-abiding citizens.
> >
> > Take note my fellow Americans.....before it's too
> > late!
> >
> > The next time someone talks in favor of gun
> > control, please remind them of this history lesson.
> >
> > With guns, we are citizens.
> > Without them, we are subjects.
> >
> > If you value your freedom, Please spread this
> > anti-gun control message to all of your friends.
> >
Article by Janece Rober Tolbert

[John Sabato]

The "facts" can always speak for themselves...

But The one line in each entry that has to be verified is "(Country name) established gun control in (Year)" ...the fact that all those people died has to be proven to be directly related to the establishment of gun control or the statements are worthless...

"Facts" presented in this manner can only help defeat the gun-control fanatics IF and ONLY IF they can't pick the facts apart... without substantiation of the relationship between the establishment of gun controls and the extermination of X number of people, these historical events carry no weight in the fight...

Today the U.S. Senate is considering some gun control measures... many of our enemies want the assault weapon ban extended as an amendment to this bill. Unless the LIES of the anti-gun movment are exposed about Assault rifles being more powerful than ordinary sporting weapons, they might win.

Send a message to your legislators to defeat the renewal of the assault weapon ban by calmly and succinctly explaining the cosmetic differences between what are called and accepted as "sporting" guns and what the liberal press has deemed "assault weapons"...

Better yet, substantiate the "facts" presented above in such a convincing manner that that they can't be refuted and send that information to the Congressional and Senate members.

[Vlim]

Hi,

Over here in the Netherlands, military weapons are accepted as sports weapons, with some reservations:

Since full-automatic fire is not needed for sporting purposes, a sporting gun may not have a workable full-auto or burst-mode, so they are modified to single-shot mode only.

Also submachineguns are not accepted at all. They serve no sporting purpose whatsoever, so it's impossible to obtain a license for them. Makes sense.

Some examples:
A Colt AR15 with auto-fire disabled is accepted as a sporting rifle.
An UZI is off-limits to all sports shooters.
An AK47 with auto-fire disabled is accepted as a sporting rifle.

Possesion of parts to turn the weapon into a full-auto again is a reason to withdraw the license.

It's a situation I can live with. Sports shooters have to opportunity to use their weapons, but abuse in the form of full-auto mode is prohibited.

Also the linking of gun ownership to a criminal record is acceptable to me. The possesion of guns is a right, granted to those who have proved to have the responsibility and the background to posses them. We have to turn in our license every year and our records will be checked. If all is okay, the license is renewed for another year.

Studies have shown that less than half a percent of annual incidents with firearms were linked to licensed gun owners, showing the current state of affairs here to be effective.

It also shows that the attempts to control legal gun ownership do not in any way help in controlling illegal gun ownership and abuse.

They are two separate issues and should be handled as such.

[John Sabato]

Designation as a 'sporting" type firearm is ambiguous at best... it is an arbitrary decision made by bureaucrats who have no knowledge, and in most cases, no desire to allow firearms possession.

In some places, even those semi-automatic rifles who have not been manufactured as machine-guns and cannot accept the replacement parts from a machine gun are prohibited for possession by ordinary citizens.

In the USA, there are local, regional and national competitions held for U.S. Military fireams marksmanship... every time you allow the government to diminish your rights, it is NEVER returned...

There are over 250,000 machineguns in this country that are legally registered and owned by ordinary citizens who have no criminal record and who choose to pay the appropriate tax for the ability to collect, trade and shoot them.

The law requiring registration of machineguns was passed in 1934. Since that time there has not been a single violent crime recorded that was committed by a legally registered machinegun in possession of the owner. Only crimes committed with illegal or stolen machineguns.

[unspellable]

Howizit that we have to "substantiate" the facts? I've never heard of an antigunner doing that!!! 98.44% of every thing they say would instantly collapse if they were required to meet the same standard.

The so called "assault weapons" bill has absolutely nothing to do with assault weapons. No assault weapon is mentioned anywhere in the bill. Assult weapons are covered under the 1934 law mentioned above. This is an example of telling a lie long enough and loud enough that it becomes the truth.

Forgive me, I have these fits from time to time.

[Big Norm]

I just heard on the news that that assault weapon ban has been extended by congress in the USA. I think I heard that a new law concerning a background check "loophole" was also passed. Does anyone know about this new law that was passed?
Big Norm

[George Anderson]

Big Norm, I can confirm that the senate passed such crap with the enthusiastic support of Virginia's senior senator, John Warner. Warner is a country club Republican from Middleburg. He is also known for having left his scalp on Liz Taylor's lance; number five or six. Warner is a disgrace to Virginia and the Republican party.

I hope that the House has yet to vote on this. If so, I strongly encourage all to contact their congressmen and encourage their negative votes here. For those of you in "red states", just go back to bed.

[G.W. Gill]

I'm confused at what happened today. Somewhat. I did not wan't the people that manufacture liable for use. I did not wan't to extend the Brady law. Could some of you more knowing members explain what going to happen next. Is it dead? Will Brady law not be extended? I feel this is important, and as a regular citizen, I would like it in layman's terms. Thanks. G.W.

[John Sabato]

IT DIED. The whole bill was killed because the democrats put the assault weapon ban and so-called gunshow loophole amendments on it.

the 1994 ban WILL expire in September... there will be NO FURTHER action during this congressional session.

Now all we have to do is defeat John Kerry and win a few more seats in the Senate without losing the house.

Unfortunately, in the interim period, the gun manufacturers are not protected from being sued by the liberals for liability... We will have to reintroduce that bill when we are in COMPLETE control of both houses and have GWB in the white house for 4 more years.

[Doubs]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by John Sabato:
<strong>Unfortunately, in the interim period, the gun manufacturers are not protected from being sued by the liberals for liability... We will have to reintroduce that bill when we are in COMPLETE control of both houses and have GWB in the white house for 4 more years.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Law is a funny thing and holding gun manufacturers liable for misuse of their products is a double edged sword. As soon as a precidence is established, lawyers will begin using the rulings as justification to hold car manufacturers and cutlery makers and the makers of anything that a person can misuse while committing a crime liable for the actions of criminals. Anyone who thinks it will be solely a gun manufacturer who is held liable also believes in the Tooth Fairy. i.e., Liberals. <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" />

[George Anderson]

Sabato is on the right track; reelect GWB, fill both houses with Republicans and move forward with juidicial appointments. Voting for the "man" is meaningless in these times, it's control of the juidiciary that matters most and has the staying power. I like your style John.

[tracyp]

I agree with George, I use to vote for the person and now I vote for the party. I've seen what the Democrats can do, I live in California.

We have "sensible gun control laws". We issure CCW permits to people like Sean Penn who have spent time in jail, but not to ordinary law abidding citizens.

Tracy

[Herb]

According to the bible, Cain slew Able (or was it the other way around) with a rock, perhaps if we outlaw rocks too we can really get to the bottom of things. As long as there are radicals in this world we will have to contend with this kind of stupid thinking. We are now in the middle of a big enviro fight here in Utah over the government allowing oil exploration in what the 'greenies' think is land that should be protected. If they win, eventually out oil prices will go thru the roof because of our dependancy on foreign imports and thier ability to control the selling price. What ever happened to the majority rules?? This country in being run by the majority, not the majority, they vote, we don't.

[Johnny C. Kitchens]

You think its majority rules??? Did you see the numbers for the '92 election. Bush vs Clinton. Bush got over 59 million votes. Clinton got over 44 million votes. Clinton also got less votes in '96. Can you imagine Bush getting 15 million more votes than Kerry this year, and then next January we have President Kerry???