1920 2 barrel set

winnons · 10-24-2002, 06:21 PM

I've been reading both the new and old board for several weeks, and feel at this point brave enough to ask for some help.
About 15 years or more ago I purchased a 1920 commercial with a 3 3/4 30 luger barrel in very nice shape. It came with a another barrel and receiver The only mark on the receiver is the crown N, the only mark on the barrel is the word Germany. The barrel is 12 inches long and in 30 Luger. On the top of the barrel is a raised area with a large dovetail for an artillery type sight, there is no sight. Both barrels shoot well when attached to the rest of the luger. I was told that the set originally came with a wooden stock and some kind of case.
I'm interested in knowing what I have and it's value, and whether it is considered a collector or a shooter?
Thanks,
Marv

Edward Tinker · 10-24-2002, 07:46 PM

This sounds pretty cool.

At some point I seem to remember hearing or reading that in the 1950's that you could buy sets of barrels such as this?

Can you post pictures?

Other opinions?

Ed

Dwight Gruber · 10-25-2002, 04:20 AM

I posted the following after attending a gun show in Longview, WA in March. The set was in a presentation case.

"...He also had a very unusual Luger, a set made up with two receivers, one with a 4" barrel and one with a longer barrel, 8" or so. It looks like it was probably made up over a 1920 Commercial frame; all the parts were re-serialized to make a matching set (including both receiver/barrels), the barrel numbers were stamped lengthwise, the toggle was blank. The only proof I could find on the whole gun was a lazy Nitro proof on the breechblock. The workmanship on the piece was excellent--corners were sharp, stampings crisp, it looked like a brand-new gun. The owner knew little about the gun's provenance, he said that he bought it "years ago, in France." He was selling a repro Navy board stock along with it. The only downside was $5k asked for a very interesting but questionable piece."

Without established provenance it would be difficult to evaluate such a piece--there are too many variables in the way of determining its authenticity. That being said it is an interesting piece, particularly because we now know of two which are very similar.

I'm certain that many collectors would not be interested in it, and many others would like to have it in their collection if the price was right. Personally I would be interested (at the right price) because it is unusual, and I would not hesitate to shoot it.

With a little searching you can probably find an Artillery sight for it, try posing the question in the Forum. Since the gun is not a Navy, an Artillery, or a recognized Carbine, and the long barrel is shorter than 16", there are Federal firearms regulations which must be complied with before you dare attach a shoulder stock.

By all means, pictures would be terrific. Congratulations on owning an interesting and unusual Luger.

--Dwight

John Sabato · 10-25-2002, 11:57 AM

Welcome to the Lugerforum...

Yes, Please provide as much detail as you can about your Luger and detailed photographs would be appreciated. If the seller's story is in fact true, and can be proven, you may petition the ATF to have your Luger added to the Curio &Relic (C&R) list and removed from the purvue of the National Firearms Act of 1934 so that you could possess a stock that closely matches the original. Without some kind of provenance, you would never be legally able to possesss or use a shoulder stock with your Luger.

Edward Tinker · 10-25-2002, 12:00 PM

Dwight,that is why I remembered reading that.

Also, I think I remember reading that you could buy almost any length of barrel. I am guessing with little stretch of the imagination that sets like this could have been ordered. They did it for Auto Mag pistols, why wouldn't someone have done it for Lugers?

But not many made, or we'd see more in collections?

Doubs · 10-25-2002, 12:24 PM

IIRC, when I was growing up, we had an old Stoeger catalog at home dated in the late 1940's or early 1950's that still listed Lugers. It also offered separate barreled receivers in about 3 or 4 different lengths of barrels. Perhaps someone on the forum has such a catalog available and can check. I have no doubt whatsoever about the availability of the various lengths of barrels being offered. What I'm not certain of is the date of the catalog.

winnons · 10-25-2002, 07:21 PM

I appreciate all the info that has been posted. After the last post I checked a Shooter's bible treasury from 1963. It had a page of lugers available from Stoegers in 1925. They listed barrel lengths from 33/4 to 12inches in 30 luger and from 6 to 12 inches in 9mm. Someone else must have been supplying 16 inch barrels as Stoeger stated they would not reccomend a 16 incher as the cartridges would jam in that long a barrel.
Gentlemen I believe I have a set from or very similiar to the Stoeger advertisement of 1925. Does anyone have an opinion as to value and collectability, or do I keep shooting the set?

winnons · 10-27-2002, 09:20 PM

Haven't disregarded request for photos, trying to get them taken and posted in the forum.
Regards

Edward Tinker · 10-29-2002, 11:55 AM

Here are Winnons pictures.

10-24-2002, 06:21 PM	#1
winnons New User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1920 2 barrel set I've been reading both the new and old board for several weeks, and feel at this point brave enough to ask for some help. About 15 years or more ago I purchased a 1920 commercial with a 3 3/4 30 luger barrel in very nice shape. It came with a another barrel and receiver The only mark on the receiver is the crown N, the only mark on the barrel is the word Germany. The barrel is 12 inches long and in 30 Luger. On the top of the barrel is a raised area with a large dovetail for an artillery type sight, there is no sight. Both barrels shoot well when attached to the rest of the luger. I was told that the set originally came with a wooden stock and some kind of case. I'm interested in knowing what I have and it's value, and whether it is considered a collector or a shooter? Thanks, Marv

10-24-2002, 07:46 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	This sounds pretty cool. At some point I seem to remember hearing or reading that in the 1950's that you could buy sets of barrels such as this? Can you post pictures? Other opinions? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-25-2002, 11:57 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Welcome to the Lugerforum... Yes, Please provide as much detail as you can about your Luger and detailed photographs would be appreciated. If the seller's story is in fact true, and can be proven, you may petition the ATF to have your Luger added to the Curio &Relic (C&R) list and removed from the purvue of the National Firearms Act of 1934 so that you could possess a stock that closely matches the original. Without some kind of provenance, you would never be legally able to possesss or use a shoulder stock with your Luger. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-25-2002, 12:00 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Dwight,that is why I remembered reading that. Also, I think I remember reading that you could buy almost any length of barrel. I am guessing with little stretch of the imagination that sets like this could have been ordered. They did it for Auto Mag pistols, why wouldn't someone have done it for Lugers? But not many made, or we'd see more in collections? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-29-2002, 11:55 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Here are Winnons pictures. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-25-2002, 04:20 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	I posted the following after attending a gun show in Longview, WA in March. The set was in a presentation case. "...He also had a very unusual Luger, a set made up with two receivers, one with a 4" barrel and one with a longer barrel, 8" or so. It looks like it was probably made up over a 1920 Commercial frame; all the parts were re-serialized to make a matching set (including both receiver/barrels), the barrel numbers were stamped lengthwise, the toggle was blank. The only proof I could find on the whole gun was a lazy Nitro proof on the breechblock. The workmanship on the piece was excellent--corners were sharp, stampings crisp, it looked like a brand-new gun. The owner knew little about the gun's provenance, he said that he bought it "years ago, in France." He was selling a repro Navy board stock along with it. The only downside was $5k asked for a very interesting but questionable piece." Without established provenance it would be difficult to evaluate such a piece--there are too many variables in the way of determining its authenticity. That being said it is an interesting piece, particularly because we now know of two which are very similar. I'm certain that many collectors would not be interested in it, and many others would like to have it in their collection if the price was right. Personally I would be interested (at the right price) because it is unusual, and I would not hesitate to shoot it. With a little searching you can probably find an Artillery sight for it, try posing the question in the Forum. Since the gun is not a Navy, an Artillery, or a recognized Carbine, and the long barrel is shorter than 16", there are Federal firearms regulations which must be complied with before you dare attach a shoulder stock. By all means, pictures would be terrific. Congratulations on owning an interesting and unusual Luger. --Dwight

10-25-2002, 12:24 PM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,698 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,687 Times in 554 Posts	IIRC, when I was growing up, we had an old Stoeger catalog at home dated in the late 1940's or early 1950's that still listed Lugers. It also offered separate barreled receivers in about 3 or 4 different lengths of barrels. Perhaps someone on the forum has such a catalog available and can check. I have no doubt whatsoever about the availability of the various lengths of barrels being offered. What I'm not certain of is the date of the catalog.

10-25-2002, 07:21 PM	#7
winnons New User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I appreciate all the info that has been posted. After the last post I checked a Shooter's bible treasury from 1963. It had a page of lugers available from Stoegers in 1925. They listed barrel lengths from 33/4 to 12inches in 30 luger and from 6 to 12 inches in 9mm. Someone else must have been supplying 16 inch barrels as Stoeger stated they would not reccomend a 16 incher as the cartridges would jam in that long a barrel. Gentlemen I believe I have a set from or very similiar to the Stoeger advertisement of 1925. Does anyone have an opinion as to value and collectability, or do I keep shooting the set?

10-27-2002, 09:20 PM	#8
winnons New User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Haven't disregarded request for photos, trying to get them taken and posted in the forum. Regards