Navy holster on Ebay

Dwight Gruber · 07-23-2003, 09:59 PM

I've been watching this item on Ebay, bid on it at the last minute, and felt like I'd stepped into the whirlwind.

Navy holster

Take a look at the bid history, can anybody tell me what happened, why this item went for so much??

--Dwight

Edward Tinker · 07-23-2003, 10:17 PM

Dwight, I am guessing, condition, "assumed Navy " by the cleaning rod.

and Had a cleaning rod...

But, obviously, many e-bay Luger people and I recognize several from this forum, knew something I had no clue on...

Oh, and a happy as hell e-bay seller,

Ed

Doubs · 07-23-2003, 11:21 PM

There's precious little difference between that holster and one I have with my Portugese M2 pistol... except, I suppose, what someone would be willing to pay for it.

Ron Wood · 07-23-2003, 11:37 PM

The devil is in the details. The holster is in very good condition, but it is the back of the holster that sets it apart from the M2 and made it a high dollar item. Authentic Navy holsters in this condition don't grow on trees.

Pete Ebbink · 07-24-2003, 11:11 AM

I could be all wrong here, but this one seems a bit longer than a 4-3/4" gun holster, as well...(?)

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John Sabato · 07-24-2003, 11:14 AM

The seller is incorrect Pete... This looks like a standard 6" barrel Navy Luger holster to me...

Pete Ebbink · 07-24-2003, 11:16 AM

I would still like to hear the "scoop" about that mint Navy holster that auctioned a few weeks back...(Hint, hint...Tom A...).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2181420128

Was she real...???

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Navy · 07-24-2003, 11:43 AM

Pete,
I bid on it fully expecting it to be a between the wars commercial holster. It was not of the quality that typifies pre-war German work.Chats with Jerry Burney confirmed that the piece was probably not German in origin.
It will be OK with a 1920-era commercial Navy as a representative specimen, the rationale being that many, many of these guns were exported to other countries where such a holster would have been made.
Tom A.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-24-2003, 12:00 PM

The holster Pete and Tom are referring to Is quite recently made with no attention to detail found in a Period German Piece. There are many tell tale signs that reveal it's provenance. One of the strongest to me is the chalk line that runs under the stock block. This would not remain long on a holster made many years ago. There are many other signs that would take many paragraphs to detail.

The most recent Navy to sell on eBay was indeed a genuine Imperial era 6" Navy Holster in my opinion. I had the seller make careful measurements for me. He said there were no markings on it but these are commonly overlooked by people who do not know what to look for so it is a possibility there are markings on it.

The only thing that bothered me about this holster is the abcence of ears on the top flap of the cleaning rod pouch. I asked the seller but he indicated there were no stitching holes in this top flap so no ears were ever placed there. I had good communication with the seller but I do not think English was his first language so he might have misunderstood.

Might be a commercial but without handling the holster it will remain a mystery. Jerry Burney

Doubs · 07-24-2003, 12:15 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lugerholsterrepair:
The only thing that bothered me about this holster is the abcence of ears on the top flap of the cleaning rod pouch. I asked the seller but he indicated there were no stitching holes in this top flap so no ears were ever placed there. Jerry Burney<hr /></blockquote>The absence of the "ears" on the cleaning rod patch and the rear loops are the only differences I see between the Navy holster and a Portugese holster (marked "AE") I own. It additionally has what I think is a serial number deeply stamped into it on the inside of the flap.

I also have a second Portugese holster marked "AE" that is constructed of completely different leather. Interesting holsters.

Ron Wood · 07-24-2003, 12:18 PM

Jerry,
Any chance that "chalk line" could be soapstone?

John Sabato · 07-24-2003, 12:52 PM

Anyone know who the winner was? the email address is not in the forum membership database... I would think anyone who spends that kind of money on a Luger accessory would be one of US... unless he used a different email address to register... hmmmm...

Here is his email address... [email protected]

I know this person bids on LOTS of luger stuff on eBay...

Edward Tinker · 07-24-2003, 01:21 PM

He seems to like Lugers and Nambus, as his e-mail addy is P08 and T14...

Of course, that fulfills me too, but I don't belong to AOL, or have the extra money to buy like he or she appears to.

Ed

lugerholsterrepair · 07-24-2003, 06:30 PM

Doubs,The missing ears, the stock block and the length. As far as I know there were no 6" Portugese holsters. Maybe I am wrong here? Let me know...

Ron, I suppose it could be soapstone.

John, His name is Jim Kemp

Jerry Burney

Doubs · 07-24-2003, 10:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lugerholsterrepair:
Doubs,The missing ears, the stock block and the length. As far as I know there were no 6" Portugese holsters.
Jerry Burney<hr /></blockquote>Duuuuuh! Of course.... the barrel length!! Jerry, you are 100% correct and I overlooked that "little" fact! <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 07-24-2003, 10:53 PM

Maybe I was way too subtle with my 4-3/4" remark, earlier...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

lugerholsterrepair · 07-25-2003, 12:52 AM

Ron is right, the back is the key. Tom Armstrong and I discussed this at length and neither of us could see any stitch lines where belt straps might have been and a stock block replaced.

Doubs, I had the seller measure the top stitch line to the toe and it was the proper length for an Imperial Navy, 10 and three quarters of an inch. We all miss something from time to time and I am certainly guilty!

Pete, Yes that was a little subtle! I figured if the 7" rod fit into the rod case and there was a couple of inches left it had to be a little longer than for a 4"! It actually looked like a Navy to me from the start but the low bids had me wondering...

Jerry Burney

John Sabato · 07-25-2003, 10:10 AM

Thanks Jerry... I thought I might know him, but the name Jim Kemp doesn't ring a bell...

I think I will invite him to join the forum by sending him a PM on eBay...

Navy · 07-25-2003, 11:40 AM

John,
Jim Kemp is a great guy. He is in the NoVA area and I see him frequently at the VGCA shows in Bealton. He has a wonderful collection of Lugers and nambus.

Tom A.

07-23-2003, 09:59 PM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Navy holster on Ebay I've been watching this item on Ebay, bid on it at the last minute, and felt like I'd stepped into the whirlwind. Navy holster Take a look at the bid history, can anybody tell me what happened, why this item went for so much?? --Dwight

07-23-2003, 10:17 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Dwight, I am guessing, condition, "assumed Navy " by the cleaning rod. and Had a cleaning rod... But, obviously, many e-bay Luger people and I recognize several from this forum, knew something I had no clue on... Oh, and a happy as hell e-bay seller, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-23-2003, 11:37 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	The devil is in the details. The holster is in very good condition, but it is the back of the holster that sets it apart from the M2 and made it a high dollar item. Authentic Navy holsters in this condition don't grow on trees. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-24-2003, 11:14 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	The seller is incorrect Pete... This looks like a standard 6" barrel Navy Luger holster to me... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-24-2003, 12:00 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	The holster Pete and Tom are referring to Is quite recently made with no attention to detail found in a Period German Piece. There are many tell tale signs that reveal it's provenance. One of the strongest to me is the chalk line that runs under the stock block. This would not remain long on a holster made many years ago. There are many other signs that would take many paragraphs to detail. The most recent Navy to sell on eBay was indeed a genuine Imperial era 6" Navy Holster in my opinion. I had the seller make careful measurements for me. He said there were no markings on it but these are commonly overlooked by people who do not know what to look for so it is a possibility there are markings on it. The only thing that bothered me about this holster is the abcence of ears on the top flap of the cleaning rod pouch. I asked the seller but he indicated there were no stitching holes in this top flap so no ears were ever placed there. I had good communication with the seller but I do not think English was his first language so he might have misunderstood. Might be a commercial but without handling the holster it will remain a mystery. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-23-2003, 11:21 PM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	There's precious little difference between that holster and one I have with my Portugese M2 pistol... except, I suppose, what someone would be willing to pay for it.

07-24-2003, 11:11 AM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I could be all wrong here, but this one seems a bit longer than a 4-3/4" gun holster, as well...(?) Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-24-2003, 11:16 AM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I would still like to hear the "scoop" about that mint Navy holster that auctioned a few weeks back...(Hint, hint...Tom A...). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2181420128 Was she real...??? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-24-2003, 11:43 AM	#8
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Pete, I bid on it fully expecting it to be a between the wars commercial holster. It was not of the quality that typifies pre-war German work.Chats with Jerry Burney confirmed that the piece was probably not German in origin. It will be OK with a 1920-era commercial Navy as a representative specimen, the rationale being that many, many of these guns were exported to other countries where such a holster would have been made. Tom A.

07-24-2003, 12:15 PM	#10
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by lugerholsterrepair: <strong>The only thing that bothered me about this holster is the abcence of ears on the top flap of the cleaning rod pouch. I asked the seller but he indicated there were no stitching holes in this top flap so no ears were ever placed there. Jerry Burney</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The absence of the "ears" on the cleaning rod patch and the rear loops are the only differences I see between the Navy holster and a Portugese holster (marked "AE") I own. It additionally has what I think is a serial number deeply stamped into it on the inside of the flap. I also have a second Portugese holster marked "AE" that is constructed of completely different leather. Interesting holsters.

07-24-2003, 12:18 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Jerry, Any chance that "chalk line" could be soapstone? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-24-2003, 12:52 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Anyone know who the winner was? the email address is not in the forum membership database... I would think anyone who spends that kind of money on a Luger accessory would be one of US... unless he used a different email address to register... hmmmm... Here is his email address... [email protected] I know this person bids on LOTS of luger stuff on eBay... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-24-2003, 01:21 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	He seems to like Lugers and Nambus, as his e-mail addy is P08 and T14... Of course, that fulfills me too, but I don't belong to AOL, or have the extra money to buy like he or she appears to. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-24-2003, 06:30 PM	#14
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Doubs,The missing ears, the stock block and the length. As far as I know there were no 6" Portugese holsters. Maybe I am wrong here? Let me know... Ron, I suppose it could be soapstone. John, His name is Jim Kemp Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-24-2003, 10:35 PM	#15
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by lugerholsterrepair: <strong>Doubs,The missing ears, the stock block and the length. As far as I know there were no 6" Portugese holsters. Jerry Burney</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Duuuuuh! Of course.... the barrel length!! Jerry, you are 100% correct and I overlooked that "little" fact! <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

07-24-2003, 10:53 PM	#16
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Maybe I was way too subtle with my 4-3/4" remark, earlier... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-25-2003, 12:52 AM	#17
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Ron is right, the back is the key. Tom Armstrong and I discussed this at length and neither of us could see any stitch lines where belt straps might have been and a stock block replaced. Doubs, I had the seller measure the top stitch line to the toe and it was the proper length for an Imperial Navy, 10 and three quarters of an inch. We all miss something from time to time and I am certainly guilty! Pete, Yes that was a little subtle! I figured if the 7" rod fit into the rod case and there was a couple of inches left it had to be a little longer than for a 4"! It actually looked like a Navy to me from the start but the low bids had me wondering... Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-25-2003, 10:10 AM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Thanks Jerry... I thought I might know him, but the name Jim Kemp doesn't ring a bell... I think I will invite him to join the forum by sending him a PM on eBay... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-25-2003, 11:40 AM	#19
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	John, Jim Kemp is a great guy. He is in the NoVA area and I see him frequently at the VGCA shows in Bealton. He has a wonderful collection of Lugers and nambus. Tom A.