1915 Hans Romer...

Pete Ebbink · 09-22-2004, 01:18 PM

Any thoughts on this 1915 Hans Romer holster on e-Bay this week :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...270370598&rd=1

I jumped out when bidding went above $ 250...I was worried about a new seller with a "0" feedback rating on e-Bay out-of-country...

What I liked about this piece was :

1. Style of the "Hans Romer" stamping looked like a photo in one of the E. Bender books.

2. Back of the holster looked to be pig skin.

3. Front photo seemed to show old stitching lines where a LP-08 pouch may have been.

4. Belt loops on back looked like LP-08.

5. Leather looked like it has a real patina...

If a fake holster, I think these details are pretty elaborate for a WWI faked piece...???

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John Sabato · 09-22-2004, 02:24 PM

Pete, I will be very interested in Jerry B's opinion on this one...

I agree with all your premises mention above, but my gut tells me this is either a commercial holster that has been sitting stuffed with paper for 89 years in a hatbox, or a new reproduction that has been "aged" just slightly to give the appearance of being original...

The almost new appearance of the tool pocket, doesn't seem to compare with the overall appearance of the holster. The front cut at the top opening looks crudely done to me...

...just my speculation... let's wait to hear from the master... He will probably need a break from pulling stitches tight with all the work he said he has piled up...

Hey Jerry? ...are you listening??

lugerholsterrepair · 09-22-2004, 03:13 PM

Fellows, Number one, This is a repro holster probably made in the 50's and aged or just made that way. John wins one here! The photo's are bad and hard to get a good look at it but the straps on the back tell the story.There is no way this is German WW1 era made. Early repro's put on the lowered single belt loop in the middle. The so called stock block on this one is silly. No way would it fit a stock and why would one be on a 4 inch anyway? No, this is as phony as
John Kerry's Silver Star.
The high bidder, lugrcol has been bidding up prices something astronomical.Maybe he's rich and ignorant.
He must be nuts too. He is an example of why it is important to buy...and study good books.
This holster is worth at the most 50 bucks as a novelty.

Jerry Burney

Pete Ebbink · 09-22-2004, 04:23 PM

Man-o-man...!!!

Am I glad there are a few folks more silly (and with more money...) than me out there...

Glad I dodged that bullet... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

Here is a photo scan of a page in Still's IL book, from page 84. The maker of this fake piece on e-Bay sure got the maker's stamping nearly 100% accurate...and then they even used pig-skin on the back of the holster...

And here is the stamping on the repro-piece...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

lugerholsterrepair · 09-22-2004, 04:35 PM

Pete, Without seeing the holster in person I guess I am saying what I believe but...I cannot imagine why this garbage is on the back. The Germans certainly didn't do it. I can't really say about the rest of the holster since I can't see it well. I suspect it is not real because of the back strapping. This very configuration is common on early repro's. Not seen EVER on real Holsters unless some idiot put it on one.
The holster, if real, is severly diminished in value IMO if the original belt loops have been replaced with this mishmash of strapping and it for sure is not worth $400 bucks in today's market. Jerry Burney

Pete Ebbink · 09-22-2004, 04:41 PM

Hi Jerry,

Hope you do not mis-understand; based on your "read" on the piece, I am glad I got bypassed in the bidding.

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 09-22-2004, 05:10 PM

Thought I would lighten up the photos a bit and save them here on the LF...photos on e-bay have a way of going away too soon :

George Anderson · 09-22-2004, 05:25 PM

Pete, Jerry and I have been watching this and did not email you as you had already dropped out. I believe it is not pigskin 'cause the Pakis don't touch oinkers. I think it is goat. The three strap back is typical of the 50's-60's repros that flooded the market in Europe as well as the US.

For some time I deceived myself into thinking they were Persian, but they aint. In fact I have at least one such LP08 holster. A POS.

As to the maker stamp, I have observed that many or most of the counterfeit stamps on supposed Imperial German leather items encountered are 1915 dates. Think to the, so called, leather TM08 pouches.

By the way, who are lugcol and pennyanboats? I think I can help them both in their apparent quest.

Pete Ebbink · 09-22-2004, 06:16 PM

Thanks, George, for the 1950's-60's info.

I did send Lugcol an email through e-Bay...inviting him to join the Luger Forum and to read the discussion about this Hans-Romer piece.

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

lugerholsterrepair · 09-22-2004, 07:04 PM

Another tip off on this one is the overly boxy mag pouch. This is not typical of German made ones and particularly for one of 1915 vintage. After all this time it should not be so boxy but a bit crushed at the corners if no where else.

Hard for me to say about the skin as I have never seen goat myself. I have to trust George on this one. I don't really know who made these things...Pakistani is as good a guess as any. Jerry Burney

G.T. · 09-22-2004, 10:06 PM

Hi to all! I agree with Jerry! The big tip off, at least in my view, was the oversized mag pouch... It is indicative of a repro holster...and one of the fine points that they (the fradulent rat bast*&$'s), have not bothered to overcome!...I think Jerry saw it right off....But there was so much else wrong, that he didn't need to state it ...Jerry can attest to this... "The last 5% of accuracy...is 95% of the work!!" That is why everybody isn't doing this! Good eyes Jerry! I for one, am certainly glad we have your expertise on this forum... best to all! Til...lat'r...GT <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

Ron Smith · 09-22-2004, 10:50 PM

GT, Now that you mention it. The mag pouch appears molded with a block. Rather than seeming to be part of the holster, and blending in. It looks like it was added as an after thought.

Ron

G.T. · 09-22-2004, 10:56 PM

Hi Ron... yes, it's just plain weird... I've never seen an original German holster with something like that on it??? But, It seem to be fooling a lot of people??? Man, I'm glad I'm not into that one! Of course..I could get sucked in on a pigskin holster pretty easily!!! Just gotta have the right bait!

Best to you, til...lat'r...GT <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 09-23-2004, 12:06 AM

Here is my early WWI holster I got from New Zealand last year...looks boxy and still well formed after almost 85 years...there are some exceptions...

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/19187.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/19187.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/19188.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/19188.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Dwight Gruber · 09-23-2004, 12:14 AM

Pete,

Here are pictures of the 1918 Hans RÃ?Â¶mer holster I got with my 1917/18 Erfurt. Note that the maker's stamp is quite different.

--Dwight

lugerholsterrepair · 09-23-2004, 02:09 AM

Dwight,Pete, Nice photo's and holsters! Good to see something that nice...
The mag pouch on Dwights Hans Romer is rounded somewhat and is not nearly so high. A distinct difference.

Thanks G.T.! Glad to chime in every once in awhile. I hate to see someone pay that kind of $ for a repro. Guess it's part of the Luger tuition...Sure could buy a nice holster for that kind of money though. Jerry Burney

09-22-2004, 01:18 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	1915 Hans Romer... Any thoughts on this 1915 Hans Romer holster on e-Bay this week : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...270370598&rd=1 I jumped out when bidding went above $ 250...I was worried about a new seller with a "0" feedback rating on e-Bay out-of-country... What I liked about this piece was : 1. Style of the "Hans Romer" stamping looked like a photo in one of the E. Bender books. 2. Back of the holster looked to be pig skin. 3. Front photo seemed to show old stitching lines where a LP-08 pouch may have been. 4. Belt loops on back looked like LP-08. 5. Leather looked like it has a real patina... If a fake holster, I think these details are pretty elaborate for a WWI faked piece...??? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-22-2004, 02:24 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Pete, I will be very interested in Jerry B's opinion on this one... I agree with all your premises mention above, but my gut tells me this is either a commercial holster that has been sitting stuffed with paper for 89 years in a hatbox, or a new reproduction that has been "aged" just slightly to give the appearance of being original... The almost new appearance of the tool pocket, doesn't seem to compare with the overall appearance of the holster. The front cut at the top opening looks crudely done to me... ...just my speculation... let's wait to hear from the master... He will probably need a break from pulling stitches tight with all the work he said he has piled up... Hey Jerry? ...are you listening?? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-22-2004, 03:13 PM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Fellows, Number one, This is a repro holster probably made in the 50's and aged or just made that way. John wins one here! The photo's are bad and hard to get a good look at it but the straps on the back tell the story.There is no way this is German WW1 era made. Early repro's put on the lowered single belt loop in the middle. The so called stock block on this one is silly. No way would it fit a stock and why would one be on a 4 inch anyway? No, this is as phony as John Kerry's Silver Star. The high bidder, lugrcol has been bidding up prices something astronomical.Maybe he's rich and ignorant. He must be nuts too. He is an example of why it is important to buy...and study good books. This holster is worth at the most 50 bucks as a novelty. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-22-2004, 04:35 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Pete, Without seeing the holster in person I guess I am saying what I believe but...I cannot imagine why this garbage is on the back. The Germans certainly didn't do it. I can't really say about the rest of the holster since I can't see it well. I suspect it is not real because of the back strapping. This very configuration is common on early repro's. Not seen EVER on real Holsters unless some idiot put it on one. The holster, if real, is severly diminished in value IMO if the original belt loops have been replaced with this mishmash of strapping and it for sure is not worth $400 bucks in today's market. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-22-2004, 07:04 PM	#10
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Another tip off on this one is the overly boxy mag pouch. This is not typical of German made ones and particularly for one of 1915 vintage. After all this time it should not be so boxy but a bit crushed at the corners if no where else. Hard for me to say about the skin as I have never seen goat myself. I have to trust George on this one. I don't really know who made these things...Pakistani is as good a guess as any. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-22-2004, 04:23 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Man-o-man...!!! Am I glad there are a few folks more silly (and with more money...) than me out there... Glad I dodged that bullet... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Here is a photo scan of a page in Still's IL book, from page 84. The maker of this fake piece on e-Bay sure got the maker's stamping nearly 100% accurate...and then they even used pig-skin on the back of the holster... And here is the stamping on the repro-piece... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-22-2004, 04:41 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Jerry, Hope you do not mis-understand; based on your "read" on the piece, I am glad I got bypassed in the bidding. Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-22-2004, 05:10 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thought I would lighten up the photos a bit and save them here on the LF...photos on e-bay have a way of going away too soon :

09-22-2004, 05:25 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Pete, Jerry and I have been watching this and did not email you as you had already dropped out. I believe it is not pigskin 'cause the Pakis don't touch oinkers. I think it is goat. The three strap back is typical of the 50's-60's repros that flooded the market in Europe as well as the US. For some time I deceived myself into thinking they were Persian, but they aint. In fact I have at least one such LP08 holster. A POS. As to the maker stamp, I have observed that many or most of the counterfeit stamps on supposed Imperial German leather items encountered are 1915 dates. Think to the, so called, leather TM08 pouches. By the way, who are lugcol and pennyanboats? I think I can help them both in their apparent quest.

09-22-2004, 06:16 PM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks, George, for the 1950's-60's info. I did send Lugcol an email through e-Bay...inviting him to join the Luger Forum and to read the discussion about this Hans-Romer piece. Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-22-2004, 10:06 PM	#11
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Hi to all! I agree with Jerry! The big tip off, at least in my view, was the oversized mag pouch... It is indicative of a repro holster...and one of the fine points that they (the fradulent rat bast*&$'s), have not bothered to overcome!...I think Jerry saw it right off....But there was so much else wrong, that he didn't need to state it ...Jerry can attest to this... "The last 5% of accuracy...is 95% of the work!!" That is why everybody isn't doing this! Good eyes Jerry! I for one, am certainly glad we have your expertise on this forum... best to all! Til...lat'r...GT <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

09-22-2004, 10:50 PM	#12
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	GT, Now that you mention it. The mag pouch appears molded with a block. Rather than seeming to be part of the holster, and blending in. It looks like it was added as an after thought. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

09-22-2004, 10:56 PM	#13
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Hi Ron... yes, it's just plain weird... I've never seen an original German holster with something like that on it??? But, It seem to be fooling a lot of people??? Man, I'm glad I'm not into that one! Of course..I could get sucked in on a pigskin holster pretty easily!!! Just gotta have the right bait! Best to you, til...lat'r...GT <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

09-23-2004, 12:06 AM	#14
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Here is my early WWI holster I got from New Zealand last year...looks boxy and still well formed after almost 85 years...there are some exceptions... <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/19187.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/19187.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/19188.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/19188.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-23-2004, 12:14 AM	#15
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Pete, Here are pictures of the 1918 Hans RÃ?Â¶mer holster I got with my 1917/18 Erfurt. Note that the maker's stamp is quite different. --Dwight

09-23-2004, 02:09 AM	#16
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Dwight,Pete, Nice photo's and holsters! Good to see something that nice... The mag pouch on Dwights Hans Romer is rounded somewhat and is not nearly so high. A distinct difference. Thanks G.T.! Glad to chime in every once in awhile. I hate to see someone pay that kind of $ for a repro. Guess it's part of the Luger tuition...Sure could buy a nice holster for that kind of money though. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."