super rare 1900 test holster is back...

[trigger643]

Rarer and much more expansive description than ever. This was previously discussed here about a year ago when it appeared on Ebay...

web page

[champ7fc]

If this is the same holster I saw two months ago on gun broker, the flap has been reversed and the belt loop is on the opposite side from the original holster configuration. The pictures are much less distinct than before.
Craig

[Pete Ebbink]

Same seller as on previous auction attemps..."remcleod" or "ralphie"...

If he were reasonable with his reserve, he might sell to someone who might want to have it "reversed" back to its original configuration...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[lugerholsterrepair]

Pete, This holster could be "reversed" but at a high visual price. At least the flap could be turned around. I was contacted about it some time ago questioning just that. It's my opinion that if this were attempted it would turn this holster into a pile of junk worse than it already is. It would take a skilled leatherworker familiar with metal rivets. Then it would end up with a lot of lines and holes that would be terribly evident. No good solution exists for this piece.
I cannot understand the reasoning for making such a thing. Instead of using an existing patterned piece and putting the suede out, it would have taken all of five min. to turn this piece over and cut a proper one. I guess we will never know the reasoning behind it. Jerry Burney

[Pete Ebbink]

Hi Jerry,

You are of course correct on the cost and the end product...I did not think it through very well...

If the original's carried a luger on the right side with the butt forward, then this "conversion" may have been done for a left-handed shooter who wanted to carry on the left side with the butt forward...???

Or maybe and more simply, it is/was a factory reject that someone had assembled inverted and it was not noticed until the end-of-the-line on the factory floor...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[lugerholsterrepair]

Pete, At the time this holster was made there was likely no "factory" in the mass sense of the word. In the turn of the Century there was a great deal of pride of workmanship not seen in the last 50 years or so. I doubt this could have gone un noticed.
Small shops put out this type of work. Probably not more than a half dozen workers to make the 1000 holsters needed to fill this contract would be my guess. People back in this era worked 12 hour days pretty consistantly.
Once the pattern and methods of construction were standardized it would go pretty smoothly. 1000 holsters for German Sattlers would be a very small order. Jerry Burney

[Pete Ebbink]

Hi Jerry,

Weren't these 1000 holsters made by the Rock Island in the USA and not in Germany...?

But I do get your point about a small staff cranking out one, one-time order of 1,000 specialized holsters...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[Edward Tinker]

I don't have these books... Were any "actually" made that way for"infantry"....

Ed

[Pete Ebbink]

Hi Ed,

On page 25 of C. Kenyon's 2nd. book, there is shown a very nice condition Test holster, right hand carry with pistol butt forward. Same in Keyon's 1st. book, LAR, on page 403.

Same orientation of the holster(s) shown in E. Bender's 2nd. big book on luger holsters on page 529.

Same orientation in M. Reese' 2nd. book on page 25...right side, butt forward. Same in Reese's 1st. book on the 1900 US Trials on pages 29-30.

Cannot find any book photos showing an original holster with left side carry, butt forward...but I thought we had a photo on the Forum a year or so ago...

Or....you can take all of these photo'd holsters and say there were meant for left side carry, with the pistol butt pointing to the rear...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[Pete Ebbink]

Hi again, Ed...

Well I found the photo I was thinking about.

In Jan Still's IL, take a look at pages 211-212.

There is a nice colored photo of a 1900 Test holster which can be worn on the left side, with the pistol butt forward. Jan's caption says it is a rare holster meant to carry on the right side with the butt rearwards...do not know which is correct...but it is a mirror image of all the other holsters...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[Ron Wood]

I am pretty sure John Eckert has one of the few "mirror image" holsters.

[RAHamilton]

Pete:

On Jan Still's GunBoards site, he had a very nice presentation on the American Eagle Luger and also went into some detail regarding the AE Test Holster. The holster Jan shows in his presentation is the same one pictured in his book "Imperial Lugers" on page 212.

You'll notice in his discussion he mentions that a Colonel H.H. Whitney submitted some Test Eagle holsters for consideration by the Army with the "butt forward", but these were rejected.

Additionally, these holsters are not marked other than the U.S. encircled stamp on the front of the flap. Jan believes, as he mentions, that these holsters are real and not some relatively modern reproduction.

I will try to provide a link to this article, but if it doesn't show up, you can simply go to his site and do a search under "American Eagle Holster" and his article/presentation will come up. I have a chance to purchase one of these "butt forward" holsters exactly like Jan's with the exception it does not have a brass ring in the drain hole on the bottom. Hope this helps?

Best Regards,
Bob

Here is the verbiage presented by Jan. Unfortunately, the pictures did not accompany the message when I copied the URL.

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Figure 9. Right side, 1900 American Eagle, serial number 6671, test. Shown with holster.

The Rock Island Arsenal manufactured 1000 holsters for the U.S. test Luger in 1902. These all bore the hallmark â??ROCK ISLAND / ARSENAL / E.H.Sâ?� and were made to be worn with the butt to the front when being worn on the right side. The holster shown above is opposite to the Rock Island holster and is intended to be worn on the right hand side with the butt to the rear.

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Figure 10. 1900 American Eagle Test Luger in its holster. The fit is perfect for the A.E. test Luger.

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Figure 11. Front of Luger holster . The only marks are the U.S. in an oval on the front of the flap. Its flap is about 3/4 of an inch shorter across the top than the Rock Island holster. The holster shown above is very similar to the Luger holster shown on page 241, Meadows (U.S. Military Holsters and Pistol Cartridge Boxes, 1987). Like the holster above, the holster shown on page 241 was designed to be worn with the butt to the rear when worn on the right side. It was submitted to the Army by Colonel H. H. Whitney. The Army rejected it.

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Figure 12. Back of Luger holster. While not exactly the same, it is very similar to the Rock Island Arsenal manufactured A.E. test holster.

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Figure 13. End plug of the Luger holster. Unlike the Rock Island Test Luger holster that has a drain hole, this holster has a built in brass loop to attach a hold down strap.

I have a few questions for the early Luger holster experts. Is the U.S. stamp restricted to holsters produced for the U.S. Army. I would suggest that this is a commercial holster produced for the various commercial Lugers and the surplus Army Lugers sold by Bannerman. However, I searched through Benderâ??s holster book did not find a commercial holster that resembles the one shown above. It is always possible that the holster is a modern replica, however it does appear to be aged and came with the test Luger shown.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan C Still
Site Owner - Operator

[RAHamilton]

Gentlemen:

In my original message I mentioned I had a chance to purchase one of these non "Rock Island Holsters". In the message I stated with the "butt forward", which actually should have said with the "butt rearward", when worn on the right side. Sorry for the mistake.

Best Regards,
Bob

[Edward Tinker]

Bob, I always cover up my boneheads, by hitting the edit icon and change my original posting! If no one has responded, I assume that no one caught it!



Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

Pete, To answer your question, yes, These were made by American craftsmen at the Rock Island Arsenal. I was comparing the order to the many holsters German Sattlers made for the hundreds of thousands of Lugers produced for the German Army. 1000 holsters would have been a very small amount.
The Americans could have benifitted greatly by a quick study of how the Germans carried their Lugers. Jerry Burney

[YOOO VINNY]

Interesting holster and it seems to still be under the reserve with a current bid of $799.

The seller refers to Meadows book in his discription of the holster. I have Meadows book and while it does show a pic of a reversed holster, there is no exact discription of it's origin. Just that a reversed holster sample was submitted by a col. Whittney and a 1st. Lt. remeyn.
There is a excerpt of 1st Lt.Romeyn's letter of proposal, stating the holster submitted is the product of himself, an ex-sargent and a saddler. There is also copy of the reply from Major Blunt, Chief of Ord. RIA to 1st Lt. Romeyn. It clearly states that Romeyn's proposed, reversed holster sample has NO cover flap and is unacceptable for military service. The Meadow's book next page show's a commercial version of the same holster, by Abercrombie & Fitch, with a USGI type 1912 wire web belt hanger.
YOOO VINNY

[Edward Tinker]

Noel I can delete it for you, but isn't it funny how it appears when you do this!!

{{I do it all the time, you hit the clicker thingy may-job and wham, ya got 2 and if you are lucky 3 posts!!}}

ed

[John Sabato]

I deleted Noel's post as he requested Ed... now YOUR post looks funny