WHat is this?

marl · 06-20-2006, 09:43 PM

I got this from a guy and I dont know what iit is. It looks like a luger but maybe it isn't. On the left side ot has Kal 9 Kurz/.380. Then under that it has, ERMA-WERKE Mod KGP 68 A. On the right it has Excam INC, HIALEAH, FLORIDA. At least I know how to take it apart, but is it the real deal, or just a fake, worth nothing. Oh the handels are brass too. I'll try to post some pics as soon as I figure out how to on here. Ok guys thanks.

marl · 06-20-2006, 10:16 PM

Heres some pix

I know you guys can help tell me what this is, and if its trash or not. Thanks.

John Sabato · 06-20-2006, 10:17 PM

Marl,

Welcome to the Lugerforum... the .380 Erma KGP 68 is a Luger look-a-like... not a Luger... but some folks like them. They haven't been made in a couple of decades... parts may be hard to come by if you break something... keep your eye on ebay for spares...

It is interesting to see the brass grips. If they are truely brass and not plastic, then those are not original, and are probably custom.

marl · 06-20-2006, 10:24 PM

Hey thanks for the welcome. Thanks for the info too. Yea I thought the gripps were wood. They were all dull looking. So get this I kid you not. I stuck the gun in the fridge because I didnt want my wife to see it. When I went back to get it, I started whiping the frost off the gripps and they polished right up!! Brass! Learned 2 things last night. 1 the gripps are brass, 2 I didnt know you could polish brass by just freezing it for a while. Ill take some more pics and post. Even tough I havent finnished polishing them, at least you can see.

Ponyman · 06-20-2006, 10:29 PM

Hi marl, and welcome to the Forum!

It's not a Luger, although it's often mistakenly called a "baby Luger" because of the physical resemblance. But it's not a "fake", either. What it is: exactly how it is marked - an Erma KGP-68 in .380 Auto. The "A" indicates the modified model: it has a magazine safety - won't fire unless the lever in the cut-out for the left magazine knob is pushed up - required by GCA '68. It differs from the Luger in that it is not a locked-toggle action. The toggle knobs don't lift the middle axle of the toggle to release the breechblock: it's a straight blow-back action. The design was inspired by the Luger, and the original intent was to chamber it for 9mm Parabellum. But the recoil spring necessary for a blow-back in 9mm Luger makes it impossible to cycle the action by hand, so you can't chamber the first round. It won't de-**** the way a Luger will, and both the recoil and the firing pin springs get completely removed during a field-strip. The production run was 1968 to sometime in the '70s. With a 5-round mag, it's not the weapon of choice in a fire-fight - but it's a nice (and cheap) little shooter. It was also offered in 32 ACP with a 6-round mag. There is also a KGP-69 in .22 Long Rifle, with an 8-round mag - and slightly larger dimensions - which was introduced in 1969. If you'd like a pair of checkered brown plastic grips (with right-handed thumb rest) for your gun, see eBay item 7249303494 (not my item).

~Dave

marl · 06-20-2006, 10:49 PM

Here they are. Theyre going to look real nice when I polish them up.

Vlim · 06-21-2006, 04:46 AM

Hi,

You can call them lugers. They are not the brainchild of Hugo Borchardt and Georg Luger, but they are certainly inspired by the original luger design.

John Walter lists them in his 'Luger' and 'The Luger Story'.

John Sabato · 06-21-2006, 03:04 PM

Glad you are able to log in again from Tokyo TAC... and submit your humor... this was a dry thread

marl · 06-21-2006, 04:21 PM

Hey thanks a lot everyone. I had to find the thread. Got moved. But thanks a lot for the info. I've allways wanted a real luger so when I saw this. I made a move on it. Im getting closer to getting one I guess. The mechanics of them are so neat. A Luger is not really a pistol, it's a pece of artwork.

Dwight Gruber · 06-21-2006, 07:46 PM

Tac,

Check your Private Messages.

--Dwight

Edward Tinker · 06-21-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marl
Hey thanks a lot everyone. I had to find the thread. Got moved. But thanks a lot for the info. I've allways wanted a real luger so when I saw this. I made a move on it. Im getting closer to getting one I guess. The mechanics of them are so neat. A Luger is not really a pistol, it's a pece of artwork.

I left a re-direct, which I usually don't do, so even though it was "moved", all you had to do was go to the same spot and click on the link.

You posted in the forum help area, once you were approved you could post in new collectors, where I "moved" it.

Ed

Aaron · 06-23-2006, 01:05 AM

Be advised this pistol is largely made of pot metal with a thin steel liner in the barrel. Definitely not intended for longevity.

c3006 · 08-14-2006, 08:38 AM

I really liked the hide it in the fridge idea!!!

06-20-2006, 09:43 PM	#1
marl User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	WHat is this? I got this from a guy and I dont know what iit is. It looks like a luger but maybe it isn't. On the left side ot has Kal 9 Kurz/.380. Then under that it has, ERMA-WERKE Mod KGP 68 A. On the right it has Excam INC, HIALEAH, FLORIDA. At least I know how to take it apart, but is it the real deal, or just a fake, worth nothing. Oh the handels are brass too. I'll try to post some pics as soon as I figure out how to on here. Ok guys thanks.

06-20-2006, 10:16 PM	#2
marl User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pix of it Heres some pix I know you guys can help tell me what this is, and if its trash or not. Thanks.

06-20-2006, 10:17 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Marl, Welcome to the Lugerforum... the .380 Erma KGP 68 is a Luger look-a-like... not a Luger... but some folks like them. They haven't been made in a couple of decades... parts may be hard to come by if you break something... keep your eye on ebay for spares... It is interesting to see the brass grips. If they are truely brass and not plastic, then those are not original, and are probably custom. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-20-2006, 10:29 PM	#5
Ponyman User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Atlantic County, NJ, USA Posts: 138 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi marl, and welcome to the Forum! It's not a Luger, although it's often mistakenly called a "baby Luger" because of the physical resemblance. But it's not a "fake", either. What it is: exactly how it is marked - an Erma KGP-68 in .380 Auto. The "A" indicates the modified model: it has a magazine safety - won't fire unless the lever in the cut-out for the left magazine knob is pushed up - required by GCA '68. It differs from the Luger in that it is not a locked-toggle action. The toggle knobs don't lift the middle axle of the toggle to release the breechblock: it's a straight blow-back action. The design was inspired by the Luger, and the original intent was to chamber it for 9mm Parabellum. But the recoil spring necessary for a blow-back in 9mm Luger makes it impossible to cycle the action by hand, so you can't chamber the first round. It won't de-**** the way a Luger will, and both the recoil and the firing pin springs get completely removed during a field-strip. The production run was 1968 to sometime in the '70s. With a 5-round mag, it's not the weapon of choice in a fire-fight - but it's a nice (and cheap) little shooter. It was also offered in 32 ACP with a 6-round mag. There is also a KGP-69 in .22 Long Rifle, with an 8-round mag - and slightly larger dimensions - which was introduced in 1969. If you'd like a pair of checkered brown plastic grips (with right-handed thumb rest) for your gun, see eBay item 7249303494 (not my item). ~Dave __________________ "The Constitution is intended for use by a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other." ~ John Quincy Adams

06-20-2006, 10:49 PM	#6
marl User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Brass Gripps Here they are. Theyre going to look real nice when I polish them up.

06-20-2006, 10:24 PM	#4
marl User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey thanks for the welcome. Thanks for the info too. Yea I thought the gripps were wood. They were all dull looking. So get this I kid you not. I stuck the gun in the fridge because I didnt want my wife to see it. When I went back to get it, I started whiping the frost off the gripps and they polished right up!! Brass! Learned 2 things last night. 1 the gripps are brass, 2 I didnt know you could polish brass by just freezing it for a while. Ill take some more pics and post. Even tough I havent finnished polishing them, at least you can see.

06-21-2006, 04:46 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, You can call them lugers. They are not the brainchild of Hugo Borchardt and Georg Luger, but they are certainly inspired by the original luger design. John Walter lists them in his 'Luger' and 'The Luger Story'.

06-21-2006, 03:04 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Glad you are able to log in again from Tokyo TAC... and submit your humor... this was a dry thread __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-21-2006, 04:21 PM	#9
marl User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey thanks a lot everyone. I had to find the thread. Got moved. But thanks a lot for the info. I've allways wanted a real luger so when I saw this. I made a move on it. Im getting closer to getting one I guess. The mechanics of them are so neat. A Luger is not really a pistol, it's a pece of artwork.

06-21-2006, 07:46 PM	#10
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Tac, Check your Private Messages. --Dwight

06-23-2006, 01:05 AM	#12
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Be advised this pistol is largely made of pot metal with a thin steel liner in the barrel. Definitely not intended for longevity.

08-14-2006, 08:38 AM	#13
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	I really liked the hide it in the fridge idea!!! __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776