C96 Red 9 shoots great!!

[Ron Smith]

We went out shooting today. I took my one and only C96 Red 9 out for the first time. This is only the second time that I have ever shot a C96 period. The first being one of the old refurbed, rebored shooter Bolo's that came in back in the 90's. It was a POS.

I am very impressed with the Red 9. Fired nearly 100 rounds of S&B 9mm 115 gr. wiithout a single stumble. It shot a touch high but windage was perfect and it grouped amazingly well.

I also had trouble getting it away from my shooting buddy who thinks I'm nuts for buying all of these old worn out pistols. He's been converted, I think.

Dennis the non-believer... hogging the C96



Me and my Red 9...



Ron

[Aaron]

As a retired military eye doctor, I hope Dennis doesn't do any more shooting without safety glasses. Tell him to use a quality pair with polycarbonate lenses, especially when shooting the C96, because when that bolt lets go and comes flying back, the only remedy will be a glass eye.
Nice pics, otherwise.

[Ron Smith]

"because when that bolt lets go and comes flying back,"

Hi Aaron,

I have heard that this can happen, but have never heard of a single instance where it did. Does anyone know of an actual case of the bolt flying out?

I have also always heard that Italian Carcanos will blow the firing pin out with the same result, but here again, have never heard of a documented case of it happening.

I'm not disputing it, just haven't heard of it actually happening.

Ron

[Vlim]

Ron,

Paul Mauser would give similar advice if he was still alive. He lost one of his eyes during the test firing of a military rifle. The bolt flew out and hit him in the eye.

You might expect that after this experience he'd design a decent bolt stop. Strangely enough he didn't. The bolt stop and the area behind it on the receiver are the achilles heel of the pistol. It would be interesting to test with how much force a Mauser C96 bolt will move backwards without the bolt stop installed.

[Karl]

Ron,

I shoot my C96 (also a red 9) with a bit of angst for the same reason. I bought a replacement bolt stop from Lugerdoc because of the legend/myth of bolt stop failure but I understand that the main problem is failure of the narrow bit of receiver behind the bolt stop due to weak springs, hot ammo, etc. I saw a C96 at a gun show booth that had this area bowed out from pounding by the bolt stop. I guess the real question is whether a C96 in good condition is safe to shoot using commercial ammo. KFS

[Ron Smith]

Hi Gerben,

I have seen and heard of guns coming unhinged. Jack O'Connor nearly lost his thumb when a sporterized 1903 Springfield slam-fired.

I was standing next to a shooter at the local range when the entire top half of his S&W Model 67 blew off. He was shooting Remington factory ammo. I got peppered with residue, but fortunately no schrapnel. He got some burns and a split trigger finger.

Thanks for your concern and the warnings, but I doubt that I will ever take the Red 9 out again, but just had to shoot it.

Thanks...

Ron

[Ron Smith]

Karl,

As I said, I had one of the refurbed import Bolos years ago. I put about 200 rounds through it, when it didn't stove pipe or jam just because it could. The overall condition was just short of really abysmal. If any of them will let go, that one should have.



Ron

[Vlim]

Hi Ron,

They're fascinating guns to shoot. With a little bit of common sense the risks can be minimized. Imagine shooting it with the stock attached, you're just a few inches away from the bolt

We had a S&W blow up at the range a couple of months ago. Deteriorated powder in a reloaded cartridge blew the cylinder apart. We had to remove a piece of the brass cartridge from the shooter's forehead. He bled like a pig, but the wound was relatively small and could be treated onsite.

Funnily enough, we had 4 new wannabe-members on the range while it happend. Nobody joined. Strange...

[the gunman]

I have fired maybe 30 of these wonderful pistols over the years. Outside of a few stovepipes never had a problem. I to have heard these stories over the years but never actually heard or knew of a case where this happen. These damn things are still going strong after a 100 years.

[davidkachel]

Ron, et al...
Though I am guilty of not wearing extra eye protection (I wear glasses) more often than not, there is a genuine danger of flying gun parts with the older guns most of us enjoy.
Remember that much of the labor in German arms factories during WWII was slave labor, some of whom had the courage to sabotage some of these weapons right in the factory.
I know this first hand. Ever had a Walther PPK self-destruct right in your hand? I have. Though I was lucky and not injured, it certainly was an enlightening experience. Between simple wear, design flaws that only surface long term, metal fatigue and potential sabotage, older guns mean bigger risks.

[davidkachel]

"We had a S&W blow up at the range a couple of months ago. Deteriorated powder in a reloaded cartridge blew the cylinder apart. We had to remove a piece of the brass cartridge from the shooter's forehead. He bled like a pig, but the wound was relatively small and could be treated onsite. "

The reason I will not shoot or buy anyone else's reloads. Last time I did the jackass had loaded well-worn brass to very hot levels. Most of the brass split and the noise and recoil were punishing. The only hot loads I will shoot are factory loads and then only for defense or hunting. I want my guns to last. When you think about it, the whole concept of "hot loads" is stupid. If you want more power, get a bigger gun.

[davidkachel]

"I was standing next to a shooter at the local range when the entire top half of his S&W Model 67 blew off. He was shooting Remington factory ammo. I got peppered with residue, but fortunately no schrapnel. He got some burns and a split trigger finger."

Ron,
I've heard a couple of these "factory ammo blew my gun up" stories lately. I wonder if most/all of them are not novice reloaders too embarrassed to tell the truth. Recently I was in a gun shop listening to one of the salesmen talking to a new reloader on the phone who refused to accept the concept of "measuring powder".
The guy just couldn't/wouldn't get it out of his head that he could just fill the case up with any old powder. The salesman finally gave up and told the guy he should not reload at all.
Most reloaders are new "hobbyists" who I imagine are lucky not to kill themselves before they get bored with the idea and sell their equipment. (Hence the perpetual glut of reloading equipment on the market.)

[Ron Smith]

Dave,

I saw the new box of Remington ammo on the bench. He said that he just bought it at a local dept store. And it had their price tag on it.

This was back in the mid 90's and Remington was having some problems with quality control issues. Around this same time I saw first hand, a new box of Remington 7mm Mag ammo with about half of the primers in up-side down.

Ron

[Aaron]

There are many inferior replacement parts floating around, including the C96 bolt stop. I have had some of these made from pot metal, and these are the ones which can let go. You have to make sure your bolt stop is made from solid machined steel.

[tenbears]

I thought I would put in my two cents worth on my police rework Red 9. It shoot very well and so far has not jamed. A few weeks ago I was shooting at steel plates at 50 yards with a S&W L frame and the the C96. I shot far better with the Mauser than the revolver. Which surprised me a bit. Only explanation is that I dont shoot 357 loads much any more.

[Ron Smith]

Safety issues aside. From where Dennis is standing, we were shooting at a gallon milk jug on a log landing. More or less a big dead end cul-de-sac flat spot, for you flat landers. Using a range finder, it measured 268 yards to the jug. All shots, with the occasional flyer, were within a 1-2 ft circumfurence of the milk jug, using the tire as a rest.

I don't think I would want to be on the receiving end, especially with the stock attached. If we would have had the stock, I believe that we could have consistantly hit the jug. The pistol shoots about 2-3" high at 50 yds. with sight set at 50 M. We didn't elevate the sight while shooting at the jug.

Ron

[thegundude]

Nice Mauser, Ron. I like it. I've been meaning to add one to my collection but it will have to wait a little while yet.

I was watching the final Star Wars last night (V) using the "OnDemand" on TV and got a closer at the C96 "Blaster" used by Han Solo. Funny how they used an off the shelf C96 with a couple of add ons instead of building something new from scratch (given the high budgets). Must be 'cuz it LOOKS like a gun should.

[davidkachel]

Ron,

That's chilling! I just checked my ammo stocks and have only 7 boxes of Remington ammo in toto, but now I'm "uncomfortable" with them.
You can't depend on anybody any more!

[Ron Smith]

Dave,

I think most of the problems Remington had were in the mid 90s. Orv even mentioned a Remington ammo problem from a few years ago on the P.38 forum recently. I have used Remington ammo for years since with no problems.


Ron

[waltherguy]

Great Pics & thread Ron!.... Gotta get me a Red C96 someday