Artillery rigging, geez...

Vlim · 10-22-2007, 03:45 PM

I recently got a pretty nice 1917 LP08 with matching stock and holster, kindly provided by Joop, for a very, very friendly fee.

Couldn't resist taking it to the range, certainly not after Jerry's stories about his Artillery/Range trip.

I was missing some leather bits and I didn't want to damage the holster or smaller leather parts, as rigging up the Artillery should become an olympic sport...

Instead I ordered the CMR set, a nice repro leather artillery rig. I just finished getting everything in place, using the original stock. Man, that was a challenge, as I didn't have the right documentation explaining how the straps were supposed to go and I already wore out my fingers last saturday, repairing a rubber slide roof liner.

But I got everything in place, and after trying on the rig I'm even more fascinated by the construction as I was before. The holster makes a good buffer for the wooden artillery stock, which kicks pretty hard when shooting. The pistol can be taken from the holster, attached to the rig and get ready for action without actually removing the rig from your body. Weight distribution is good and the set is pretty wearable (although I won't make a habit out of it, local laws and such

)

Anyway, my compliments to the fellows at CMR, a large thank you to Joop and a large thank you to Jerry for pointing me in the right direction.

the gunman · 10-22-2007, 04:52 PM

Gerben Congratulations on your artillery rig. A real prize. As you know getting harder and harder to find. Im sure you and your shooting buddies at the culb will get great enjoyment with it.

thegundude · 10-22-2007, 06:22 PM

Congrats on rigging up your Arty. I recently did the same and failed miserably at getting the straps right, even with Jerrys help. He explained it well enough but, unfortunately, I'm something of an idiot. It's together but not correctly...

So, where are the pictures? Range report on accuracy?

Ron Smith · 10-22-2007, 11:15 PM

Hey Gerben,

Here's the illustration of proper application in a combat situation.

Ron

lugerholsterrepair · 10-23-2007, 12:35 AM

Gerben, Congratulations! They are fun to shoot!

Steve, from Ron's excellet drawing and what I wrote, you should be able to do it now!

Ronnie, you should do a monthly drawing and post it ! Really good...I know another cartoonist who recently sent me a sheaf of good cartoons..Shelly Fischmann. Talented fellows you two!
Jerry Burney

thegundude · 10-23-2007, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Smith
Hey Gerben,

Here's the illustration of proper application in a combat situation.

Ron

LOL!! That's great, Ron! And mine looks just like that, but without the helmet...

thegundude · 10-23-2007, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lugerholsterrepair

Steve, from Ron's excellet drawing and what I wrote, you should be able to do it now!

Jerry Burney

I think I have it now. I need to buy a helment.

Vlim · 10-23-2007, 01:18 PM

Guys,

Thanks for the comments. You'll have to wait for the pictures until my camera's batteries are reloaded (misplaced the loader, but found it).

Ron: Excellent illustration and not very far from the truth, certainly not during my first attempts at positioning the straps.

Jerry: The CMR strap has a metal plate attached to one of the ends (some 3 - 4 inches from the end) which makes it difficult to get it attached to the stock and holster. Any idea if this CMR feature is based on an original one, or that perhaps it has another use?

Basically, because of the plate I had to pull the entire length of strap through the left bottom hole of the board so I could guide it along the left holster strap, the left top hole, the right top hole, the right holster strap and the right bottom hole. This feature and the fact that the 4 holes in the center leather piece did not line up with the screw holes in the board (I used the original screws and washers, not the repros), were the only complaints I had about the CMR rig. Other than that, it's very nice with enough subtleties to distinguish it from the real thing.

lugerholsterrepair · 10-23-2007, 01:40 PM

Gerben, I cannot say where CMR came up with this goofy idea. It has no use I know of. The only other metal plate on originals is the metal belt clip found on some Imperial Navy straps.
The Original Artillery strap is never found with a metal plate attached to my knowledge.
You are correct..this metal plate makes it very hard to thread the straps into the stock and holster.
CMR should fine tune some of the details on their holsters. It would be so easy to do and make their products so much better.
Jerry Burney

wlyon · 10-23-2007, 04:52 PM

Ron You are indeed one of a kind. LMAO. I agree with Jerry you need to do a monthly. Bill

the gunman · 10-23-2007, 07:24 PM

My Persian Artillery rig has a metal plate on the straps mid way up. Sold another of these Persian rigs to a fellow member with the same plate on it.

lugerholsterrepair · 10-23-2007, 10:50 PM

Richie, Did these plates have anything stamped on them? That's the only reason I can think of that they might be used for...Something like: if you find this drop it into any Postal box and it will be returnd to it's owner...Jerry

Big Norm · 10-24-2007, 07:51 AM

Ron,
I love your cartoon. Reminds me of how hard it is to put everything together. I always wondered how a common German soldier ever got the stock off the holster and straps so that it could be actually used in combat. Little wonder it is so difficult to find the full rigs.
Big Norm

the gunman · 10-24-2007, 10:10 AM

Jerry nothing stamped on the plates. " Odd"

Vlim · 10-24-2007, 01:07 PM

Hi Norm,

The simple explanation is that the holster and stock are used a a set and are not meant to be separated in combat. The holster actually serves as an enhancement to the stock, absorbing much of the recoil.

I have shot the stocked artillery a number of times without leather/holster attached. One of the purposes of this set is to be able to test shooting with 'all strings attached', so to speak.

Vlim · 10-24-2007, 06:43 PM

A small update,

I shot the fully rigged artillery today and I really appreciate the design. As expected the holster, attached to the stock, served as a stock extention and cushion. It is very easy to remove the pistol from the holster (with one hand), attach it to the stock and assume a firing position without having to remove the holster strap from your body at all.

Placement of the magazines on the chest, attached to the strap, also makes sense, they can be reached quite easily with the left hand, again opening it with one hand.

The whole package really comes together this way, I'm truly impressed.

lugerholsterrepair · 10-25-2007, 01:07 AM

Gerben, Yes! Quite the fun shooting one of these! The Imperial Artillery did not use a double magazine pouch placed on the shoulder strap. The Imperial Navy did but the Artillery were carried on the belt.
Jerry Burney

Sieger · 10-25-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thegundude
LOL!! That's great, Ron! And mine looks just like that, but without the helmet...

Ron:

You forgot the boot knife!!!

It may be helpful in getting the poor bastard free of all of that rigging.

Quite to the contrary, I have a reproduction of the original WWI Manual issued with the LP-08. It illustrates the proper usage of the pistol with the stock. No such entanglements would even be possible with the rig.

Sieger

Vlim · 10-25-2007, 01:28 PM

Hi Jerry,

The Navy got it right, it's a much better location for the magazines than on the belt.

Sieger: You're correct. the WW1 manual indeed shows the pistol with stock, holster and rig attached.

Vlim · 10-28-2007, 12:43 PM

The more I think about it: The CMR artillery holster set appears to have been based on a Persian rig, rather than a WW1 version.

10-22-2007, 03:45 PM	#1
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Artillery rigging, geez... I recently got a pretty nice 1917 LP08 with matching stock and holster, kindly provided by Joop, for a very, very friendly fee. Couldn't resist taking it to the range, certainly not after Jerry's stories about his Artillery/Range trip. I was missing some leather bits and I didn't want to damage the holster or smaller leather parts, as rigging up the Artillery should become an olympic sport... Instead I ordered the CMR set, a nice repro leather artillery rig. I just finished getting everything in place, using the original stock. Man, that was a challenge, as I didn't have the right documentation explaining how the straps were supposed to go and I already wore out my fingers last saturday, repairing a rubber slide roof liner. But I got everything in place, and after trying on the rig I'm even more fascinated by the construction as I was before. The holster makes a good buffer for the wooden artillery stock, which kicks pretty hard when shooting. The pistol can be taken from the holster, attached to the rig and get ready for action without actually removing the rig from your body. Weight distribution is good and the set is pretty wearable (although I won't make a habit out of it, local laws and such ) Anyway, my compliments to the fellows at CMR, a large thank you to Joop and a large thank you to Jerry for pointing me in the right direction.

10-22-2007, 06:22 PM	#3
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Congrats on rigging up your Arty. I recently did the same and failed miserably at getting the straps right, even with Jerrys help. He explained it well enough but, unfortunately, I'm something of an idiot. It's together but not correctly... So, where are the pictures? Range report on accuracy? __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

10-22-2007, 11:15 PM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hey Gerben, Here's the illustration of proper application in a combat situation. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-23-2007, 12:35 AM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Gerben, Congratulations! They are fun to shoot! Steve, from Ron's excellet drawing and what I wrote, you should be able to do it now! Ronnie, you should do a monthly drawing and post it ! Really good...I know another cartoonist who recently sent me a sheaf of good cartoons..Shelly Fischmann. Talented fellows you two! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-23-2007, 01:40 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Gerben, I cannot say where CMR came up with this goofy idea. It has no use I know of. The only other metal plate on originals is the metal belt clip found on some Imperial Navy straps. The Original Artillery strap is never found with a metal plate attached to my knowledge. You are correct..this metal plate makes it very hard to thread the straps into the stock and holster. CMR should fine tune some of the details on their holsters. It would be so easy to do and make their products so much better. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-22-2007, 04:52 PM	#2
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Gerben Congratulations on your artillery rig. A real prize. As you know getting harder and harder to find. Im sure you and your shooting buddies at the culb will get great enjoyment with it.

10-23-2007, 01:18 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Guys, Thanks for the comments. You'll have to wait for the pictures until my camera's batteries are reloaded (misplaced the loader, but found it). Ron: Excellent illustration and not very far from the truth, certainly not during my first attempts at positioning the straps. Jerry: The CMR strap has a metal plate attached to one of the ends (some 3 - 4 inches from the end) which makes it difficult to get it attached to the stock and holster. Any idea if this CMR feature is based on an original one, or that perhaps it has another use? Basically, because of the plate I had to pull the entire length of strap through the left bottom hole of the board so I could guide it along the left holster strap, the left top hole, the right top hole, the right holster strap and the right bottom hole. This feature and the fact that the 4 holes in the center leather piece did not line up with the screw holes in the board (I used the original screws and washers, not the repros), were the only complaints I had about the CMR rig. Other than that, it's very nice with enough subtleties to distinguish it from the real thing.

10-23-2007, 04:52 PM	#10
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	Ron You are indeed one of a kind. LMAO. I agree with Jerry you need to do a monthly. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

10-23-2007, 07:24 PM	#11
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	My Persian Artillery rig has a metal plate on the straps mid way up. Sold another of these Persian rigs to a fellow member with the same plate on it.

10-23-2007, 10:50 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Richie, Did these plates have anything stamped on them? That's the only reason I can think of that they might be used for...Something like: if you find this drop it into any Postal box and it will be returnd to it's owner...Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-24-2007, 07:51 AM	#13
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ron, I love your cartoon. Reminds me of how hard it is to put everything together. I always wondered how a common German soldier ever got the stock off the holster and straps so that it could be actually used in combat. Little wonder it is so difficult to find the full rigs. Big Norm

10-24-2007, 10:10 AM	#14
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Jerry nothing stamped on the plates. " Odd"

10-24-2007, 01:07 PM	#15
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Norm, The simple explanation is that the holster and stock are used a a set and are not meant to be separated in combat. The holster actually serves as an enhancement to the stock, absorbing much of the recoil. I have shot the stocked artillery a number of times without leather/holster attached. One of the purposes of this set is to be able to test shooting with 'all strings attached', so to speak.

10-24-2007, 06:43 PM	#16
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	A small update, I shot the fully rigged artillery today and I really appreciate the design. As expected the holster, attached to the stock, served as a stock extention and cushion. It is very easy to remove the pistol from the holster (with one hand), attach it to the stock and assume a firing position without having to remove the holster strap from your body at all. Placement of the magazines on the chest, attached to the strap, also makes sense, they can be reached quite easily with the left hand, again opening it with one hand. The whole package really comes together this way, I'm truly impressed.

10-25-2007, 01:07 AM	#17
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Gerben, Yes! Quite the fun shooting one of these! The Imperial Artillery did not use a double magazine pouch placed on the shoulder strap. The Imperial Navy did but the Artillery were carried on the belt. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-25-2007, 01:28 PM	#19
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Jerry, The Navy got it right, it's a much better location for the magazines than on the belt. Sieger: You're correct. the WW1 manual indeed shows the pistol with stock, holster and rig attached.

10-28-2007, 12:43 PM	#20
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	The more I think about it: The CMR artillery holster set appears to have been based on a Persian rig, rather than a WW1 version.