1915 DWM Imperial Artillary w/ Death's Head

USKEW · 02-18-2008, 09:52 AM

I am new user and posted this gun in other categories of the forum. I have received alot of usefull information and found out that this actually is a reworked artillary piece, so I thought I'd put a few pics here in this section to share. Thanks,

Kevin

USKEW · 02-18-2008, 09:53 AM

more pics

USKEW · 02-18-2008, 09:53 AM

totenkoph

USKEW · 02-18-2008, 09:54 AM

unit markings

USKEW · 02-18-2008, 09:55 AM

pic of notch re artillary

USKEW · 02-18-2008, 09:56 AM

DWM

USKEW · 02-18-2008, 09:58 AM

The only parts that don't match are the barrel and the clip.

Lugerdoc · 02-18-2008, 11:28 AM

The PO8 shown has definately been reworked at sometime and I would bet that the "death head" is a later addition. I know of a couple of these repro dies in circulation and in use today. TH

tenbears · 02-18-2008, 12:25 PM

The "death head" looks good to me although all the good ones I have seen have been on 1917/1918 dated Lugers. As always this Luger needs a hands on inspection to determine what it really is.

John Sabato · 02-18-2008, 01:49 PM

The totekopf stamp does appear to have a halo... but as tenbears says, it requires a hands on inspection to determine if it has been added to increase it's value. Personally I am only interested in the real history of such a mark... and as yet, we have no documented evidence of why it was used.

USKEW · 02-18-2008, 06:11 PM

John:

I agree with you and am extremely interested in the history and purpose of these marks. I had found interesting forums and discussions on luger.gunboards.com re the totenkoph and was made aware of Klaus Shad and his research on the same. Jan Still did send pics of this luger to Klaus Shad and his opinion was that it did appear stamped and was like many unit marked totenkophs he has inspected. I understand his opinions are highly valued.

I know this is on no "concrete" evidence but my grandfather chose to keep this particular luger over others that he collected during the war while on the front lines, because of the death's head and date on the same. So I know that it did atleast come back from the war with this mark on it. I believe it is an authentic mark and am just enjoying sharing the gun and hearing the comments.

thanks,
Kevin

lugerholsterrepair · 02-18-2008, 06:21 PM

Kevin, I know this is on no "concrete" evidence but my grandfather chose to keep this particular luger over others that he collected during the war while on the front lines, because of the death's head and date on the same. So I know that it did atleast come back from the war with this mark on it. I believe it is an authentic mark and am just enjoying sharing the gun and hearing the comments.

You have the right attitude...There are many well meaning people on these Forums who proclaim items fake or not right. Why? Might be the safe comment..

This DH looks right to me, a student novice. I recently saw two of them at the Phoenix gun show that WERE fake! So Luger Doc is right. Fakes are rampant.
Just enjoy what you know and have.
Jerry Burney

USKEW · 02-18-2008, 06:29 PM

Thanks Jerry

Big Norm · 02-20-2008, 07:35 PM

Somehow, somewhere, I thought that I read that the "Deaths Head" was for flame throwers near the end of WW1. Although, I thought that I saw it in a picture on the side of tanks also during that war. Terrifying weapon that flame thrower that was in use near the end of the war.
Big Norm

USKEW · 02-20-2008, 09:07 PM

Yes, i too have been told that the lazy S above the skull is a symbol for the flame throwing units, as the lazy S symbolizes the sweeping motion made by the flame thrower. I wish that Klaus Schad would publish his research on the topic soon.

USKEW · 02-20-2008, 09:10 PM

Does anyone know if there were any flame throwing units serving in the 127th Regiment, 5th company...as per the unit markings on the grip of this pistol?

02-18-2008, 09:52 AM	#1
USKEW User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1915 DWM Imperial Artillary w/ Death's Head I am new user and posted this gun in other categories of the forum. I have received alot of usefull information and found out that this actually is a reworked artillary piece, so I thought I'd put a few pics here in this section to share. Thanks, Kevin Attached Thumbnails

02-18-2008, 09:53 AM	#2
USKEW User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more pics Attached Thumbnails

02-18-2008, 09:53 AM	#3
USKEW User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	totenkoph Attached Thumbnails

02-18-2008, 09:54 AM	#4
USKEW User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	unit markings Attached Thumbnails

02-18-2008, 09:55 AM	#5
USKEW User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	pic of notch re artillary Attached Thumbnails

02-18-2008, 09:56 AM	#6
USKEW User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	DWM Attached Thumbnails

02-18-2008, 09:58 AM	#7
USKEW User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The only parts that don't match are the barrel and the clip. Attached Thumbnails

02-18-2008, 11:28 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	The PO8 shown has definately been reworked at sometime and I would bet that the "death head" is a later addition. I know of a couple of these repro dies in circulation and in use today. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

02-18-2008, 12:25 PM	#9
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	The "death head" looks good to me although all the good ones I have seen have been on 1917/1918 dated Lugers. As always this Luger needs a hands on inspection to determine what it really is.

02-18-2008, 01:49 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	The totekopf stamp does appear to have a halo... but as tenbears says, it requires a hands on inspection to determine if it has been added to increase it's value. Personally I am only interested in the real history of such a mark... and as yet, we have no documented evidence of why it was used. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-18-2008, 06:11 PM	#11
USKEW User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John: I agree with you and am extremely interested in the history and purpose of these marks. I had found interesting forums and discussions on luger.gunboards.com re the totenkoph and was made aware of Klaus Shad and his research on the same. Jan Still did send pics of this luger to Klaus Shad and his opinion was that it did appear stamped and was like many unit marked totenkophs he has inspected. I understand his opinions are highly valued. I know this is on no "concrete" evidence but my grandfather chose to keep this particular luger over others that he collected during the war while on the front lines, because of the death's head and date on the same. So I know that it did atleast come back from the war with this mark on it. I believe it is an authentic mark and am just enjoying sharing the gun and hearing the comments. thanks, Kevin

02-18-2008, 06:21 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Kevin, I know this is on no "concrete" evidence but my grandfather chose to keep this particular luger over others that he collected during the war while on the front lines, because of the death's head and date on the same. So I know that it did atleast come back from the war with this mark on it. I believe it is an authentic mark and am just enjoying sharing the gun and hearing the comments. You have the right attitude...There are many well meaning people on these Forums who proclaim items fake or not right. Why? Might be the safe comment.. This DH looks right to me, a student novice. I recently saw two of them at the Phoenix gun show that WERE fake! So Luger Doc is right. Fakes are rampant. Just enjoy what you know and have. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-18-2008, 06:29 PM	#13
USKEW User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Jerry

02-20-2008, 07:35 PM	#14
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Somehow, somewhere, I thought that I read that the "Deaths Head" was for flame throwers near the end of WW1. Although, I thought that I saw it in a picture on the side of tanks also during that war. Terrifying weapon that flame thrower that was in use near the end of the war. Big Norm

02-20-2008, 09:07 PM	#15
USKEW User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes, i too have been told that the lazy S above the skull is a symbol for the flame throwing units, as the lazy S symbolizes the sweeping motion made by the flame thrower. I wish that Klaus Schad would publish his research on the topic soon.

02-20-2008, 09:10 PM	#16
USKEW User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Does anyone know if there were any flame throwing units serving in the 127th Regiment, 5th company...as per the unit markings on the grip of this pistol?