9mm Nato Load?

AlecPete · 04-11-2013, 07:07 PM

Regretfully a year ago purchased 1,500 rounds of 9mm Nato load. Before using them I read the back of the box and it indicated that it was 10% more than standard 9mm Luger load and to be used in Modern Firearms? Anybody familiar with this, would appreciate your assistance. I'm trying to determine if the NATO ammo can be safely used in the WWI & WW II German Lugers and and P 38's.

Edward Tinker · 04-11-2013, 10:08 PM

All the warnings I have been told is to fire ammo like this only in guns designed for it

jonnyc · 04-12-2013, 07:10 AM

I don't have the numbers handy, but I think you would find that German wartime 9x19 is probably closer ballistically to 9mm Nato-spec ammo than it is to commercial Remington or WWB.

lew1 · 04-12-2013, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyc

I don't have the numbers handy, but I think you would find that German wartime 9x19 is probably closer ballistically to 9mm Nato-spec ammo than it is to commercial Remington or WWB.

You are correct. US manufacturers tend to download ammo because of liability concerns. Holds true in 8mm as some of the early 98's were not designed for the later ammo (the 98s were stronger later on).

I have had no problem with German WWII ammo when shooting my luger or my Hi Powers. Nor have I had any problems with current 9mm from abroad. But then my pistols were in good shape.

AlecPete · 04-12-2013, 09:02 AM

Jonnyc, thanks for your reply. I'm trying to determine if the NATO ammo can be safely used in the WWI & WW II German Lugers and and P 38's.

mrerick · 04-12-2013, 02:40 PM

Our advice here has consistently been, over many years and many examples of damaged collectable firearms:

Do not fire Nato load ammo in historic firearms.

White box Winchester (or equivalent) if you must.

Marc

John Sabato · 04-12-2013, 04:21 PM

I agree with conventional wisdom....I would NOT fire NATO ammo in WW1 and WW2 historical firearms... depreciation of value with ONE cracked part is too risky.

Sieger · 04-13-2013, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlecPete

Regretfully a year ago purchased 1,500 rounds of 9mm Nato load. Before using them I read the back of the box and it indicated that it was 10% more than standard 9mm Luger load and to be used in Modern Firearms? Anybody familiar with this, would appreciate your assistance. I'm trying to determine if the NATO ammo can be safely used in the WWI & WW II German Lugers and and P 38's.

Hi:

Here is the truth.

Through WWII the German Army load for the 123 gr. bullet was at 1,076 fps.

The current NATO load is 121 gr. bullet at 1,260 fps.

If you value your Luger, don't fire this hot stuff through it!!!

On the other hand, quite a few people are looking to buy the NATO spec stuff. Check your local law, but you should be able to sell it, if you want.

Sieger

jonnyc · 04-13-2013, 09:51 AM

A "121 gr." bullet?

Sieger · 04-14-2013, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyc

A "121 gr." bullet?

Hi,

No typo.

Sieger

Vlim · 04-14-2013, 12:46 PM

Hmm, over here they shot standard NATO ball through anything that moves for years, and the guns still work, so I think the problem is slightly exaggerated.

Dutch government used FN Hi-Power pistols and Glocks for years with the stuff, I shot several boxes through my 1937 P08 without issues. I wouldn't recommend it as a regular diet for prolonged use, but the gun will not roll over and die after a box of NATO 9mm once in a while.

That said, the risk of shooting collectible pistols with ANY ammunition should be known by now. If you don't want to break anything, don't shoot them.

Sieger · 04-19-2013, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

Hmm, over here they shot standard NATO ball through anything that moves for years, and the guns still work, so I think the problem is slightly exaggerated.

Dutch government used FN Hi-Power pistols and Glocks for years with the stuff, I shot several boxes through my 1937 P08 without issues. I wouldn't recommend it as a regular diet for prolonged use, but the gun will not roll over and die after a box of NATO 9mm once in a while.

That said, the risk of shooting collectible pistols with ANY ammunition should be known by now. If you don't want to break anything, don't shoot them.

Hi

P-38s are known as slide crackers, and I crack one with the NATO round.

Sieger

Vlim · 04-19-2013, 07:04 AM

It happens.

Ever wondered why certain parts are unnumbered? -> They fail after a number of shots.
I went through 3 ejector springs over a period of 8 years.

Also broke an extractor while shooting Winchester whitebox.

Sieger · 04-23-2013, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

It happens.

Ever wondered why certain parts are unnumbered? -> They fail after a number of shots.
I went through 3 ejector springs over a period of 8 years.

Also broke an extractor while shooting Winchester whitebox.

Vlim:

Some really love the Winchester White Box, but by the original German standards, it's is too hot too!!

Sieger

gmlehmann · 04-23-2013, 09:29 AM

What was the original German standard? I've heard Winchester White Box recommended in the forums several times, so I just figured the 115gr must be close.

AlecPete · 04-23-2013, 10:08 AM

I understand that the original 9mm Luger load was a 123 gr. at 1,076 fps.

gmlehmann · 04-25-2013, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieger

Vlim:

Some really love the Winchester White Box, but by the original German standards, it's is too hot too!!

Sieger

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlecPete

I understand that the original 9mm Luger load was a 123 gr. at 1,076 fps.

Being new to this perhaps it is my lack of knowledge, but if the original 9mm Luger load was 123gr wouldn't that be a hotter load than the Winchester White Box that is 115gr?

alanint · 04-19-2013, 07:29 AM

Nato Ammo was meant as a mean load for both pistols and SMGs, and does have a stronger recoil impulse and higher velocities than standard US loads.

Sergio Natali · 04-19-2013, 09:19 AM

In this country we do not have 9 mm Para, as it is considered illegal, we are compelled to use 9x21 IMI which is even stronger (and all P.08 chambers get spoilt to use this absurd caliber) In any case I would NEVER use it in an old gun.

jonnyc · 04-27-2013, 09:59 AM

And to add a little to that helpful post......
The 115gr. and 124gr. refer to the bullet weight in "grains", not the pressure or propellant charge. You can have hot and mild 115 loads, and hot and mild 124 loads.

04-11-2013, 07:07 PM	#1
AlecPete User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 8 Thanks: 20 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	9mm Nato Load? Regretfully a year ago purchased 1,500 rounds of 9mm Nato load. Before using them I read the back of the box and it indicated that it was 10% more than standard 9mm Luger load and to be used in Modern Firearms? Anybody familiar with this, would appreciate your assistance. I'm trying to determine if the NATO ammo can be safely used in the WWI & WW II German Lugers and and P 38's. Last edited by AlecPete; 04-12-2013 at 09:06 AM.

04-11-2013, 10:08 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	All the warnings I have been told is to fire ammo like this only in guns designed for it __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-12-2013, 02:40 PM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Our advice here has consistently been, over many years and many examples of damaged collectable firearms: Do not fire Nato load ammo in historic firearms. White box Winchester (or equivalent) if you must. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-12-2013, 04:21 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I agree with conventional wisdom....I would NOT fire NATO ammo in WW1 and WW2 historical firearms... depreciation of value with ONE cracked part is too risky. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-12-2013, 07:10 AM	#3
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	I don't have the numbers handy, but I think you would find that German wartime 9x19 is probably closer ballistically to 9mm Nato-spec ammo than it is to commercial Remington or WWB.

04-12-2013, 09:02 AM	#5
AlecPete User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 8 Thanks: 20 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jonnyc, thanks for your reply. I'm trying to determine if the NATO ammo can be safely used in the WWI & WW II German Lugers and and P 38's.

04-13-2013, 09:51 AM	#9
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	A "121 gr." bullet?

04-14-2013, 12:46 PM	#11
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hmm, over here they shot standard NATO ball through anything that moves for years, and the guns still work, so I think the problem is slightly exaggerated. Dutch government used FN Hi-Power pistols and Glocks for years with the stuff, I shot several boxes through my 1937 P08 without issues. I wouldn't recommend it as a regular diet for prolonged use, but the gun will not roll over and die after a box of NATO 9mm once in a while. That said, the risk of shooting collectible pistols with ANY ammunition should be known by now. If you don't want to break anything, don't shoot them.

04-19-2013, 07:04 AM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	It happens. Ever wondered why certain parts are unnumbered? -> They fail after a number of shots. I went through 3 ejector springs over a period of 8 years. Also broke an extractor while shooting Winchester whitebox.

04-23-2013, 09:29 AM	#15
gmlehmann User Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 41 Thanks: 10 Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts	What was the original German standard? I've heard Winchester White Box recommended in the forums several times, so I just figured the 115gr must be close.

04-23-2013, 10:08 AM	#16
AlecPete User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 8 Thanks: 20 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I understand that the original 9mm Luger load was a 123 gr. at 1,076 fps.

04-19-2013, 07:29 AM	#18
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Nato Ammo was meant as a mean load for both pistols and SMGs, and does have a stronger recoil impulse and higher velocities than standard US loads.

04-19-2013, 09:19 AM	#19
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	In this country we do not have 9 mm Para, as it is considered illegal, we are compelled to use 9x21 IMI which is even stronger (and all P.08 chambers get spoilt to use this absurd caliber) In any case I would NEVER use it in an old gun.

04-27-2013, 09:59 AM	#20
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	And to add a little to that helpful post...... The 115gr. and 124gr. refer to the bullet weight in "grains", not the pressure or propellant charge. You can have hot and mild 115 loads, and hot and mild 124 loads.