bitten by the Bug again

Arminius · 01-10-2014, 06:11 PM

Hello to all!

Lugerforums was my second Gun Forum ( HiPowers are my LOVE ;-)), but somehow I got distracted ... got a SEVERE case of BRD ( Black Rifle Disease ), and besides, I have a Stress Job, Children, am a Hunter ...

After my Mauser Parabellum of 1976 or 77, in BNIB condition I didn´t look for Lugers for a loooong time.

Then Lightning struck.

I don´t know why, but suddenly last Year I started looking for a Navy 6" Luger.

One sold at an Auction for a solid € 3400. VERY nice IMO.

And today, in an act of total mental disease I bought one myself.

1918, DWM, 6" Barrel, strawed parts, but reblued, markings somewhat shallow ( ??? ) ( I am no Expert ), seems to be done by a Master, though.

One matching number nickeled mag with Wood base with concentric rings.

somewhat shallow rifling, IMO.

NEW REPRO RIG, with black Holster attached to wooden stock, sling, double mag pouch, was included. cleaning rod, too, no tool.

Pic of Original Unit to which it was issued, with Name of WW II ancestor, which preserved the gun until 1988, then sold it to my Seller.

Didn´t shoot it yet.

Will try for pix.

What should I look out for, I want to shoot it, since it´s reblued, occasionally, with Lapua Luger Load only.

Shalll I get replacement FP, FP Spring, Recoil Spring, Extractor, Grips ( of course keeping the original parts! ) and shoot it occasionally?

Thanks for any Input, Hermann

Norme · 01-10-2014, 06:55 PM

Hi Hermann, There is no such thing as an original 1918 dated Navy Luger. Several fake 1918 Navy Lugers were turned out here in the US over 10 years ago, and I hope the "1918" is just a typo on your part and not one of these.
Regards, Norm

DavidJayUden · 01-10-2014, 07:04 PM

Hernmann:
Can you post photos?
That may help.
dju

Arminius · 01-10-2014, 07:31 PM

i have a bad Feeling already.

DWM on Toggle

1918 on Receiver.

NO Markings on backstrap???

I´ll take pix ...soon!

Norme · 01-10-2014, 07:47 PM

Hi Hermann, The absence of unit marks on the back strap is not an issue. They were officially discontinued in 1916 and are seldom seen on late guns. You might find this thread interesting, it's a discussion of another 1918 dated "Navy".
Regards, Norm
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ight=1918+Navy

Arminius · 01-10-2014, 08:01 PM

lugersrkewl · 01-10-2014, 08:06 PM

why do people boost straw parts?????

DavidJayUden · 01-10-2014, 08:19 PM

Front frame numbers photo?
dju

lugerholsterrepair · 01-10-2014, 08:23 PM

I gotta tell ya..those Crowns are floating like they have helium in them...

Arminius · 01-10-2014, 08:24 PM

tomorrow.

The front number is VERY shallow. It matches the bottom of the mag ( on Wood ). Last number 61 everywhere.

What do you all think??????

Have I been taken?

lugerholsterrepair · 01-10-2014, 08:35 PM

The Navy rear sight is a fake too..

The picture of the rear grip strap..the wooden grip does not fit at all..It should be flush and flat.

I am curious to know something..in several photo's it appears the top cannon is jutting out beyond the frame just slightly. Will this pistol koch and fire?

Usually if the top comes forward of the frame it throws the trigger lever away from the sear and the pistol is unable to fire.

Norme · 01-10-2014, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arminius

Have I been taken?

Hi Hermann, Yes, I'm afraid so. If it helps any, you're in good company, several very experienced collectors have been had too. Just for the record, please let us know the full, four digit serial number. Is there a suffix letter below the serial number on the front of the frame?
Regards, Norm

sheepherder · 01-11-2014, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

I am curious to know something..in several photo's it appears the top cannon is jutting out beyond the frame just slightly...

I am puzzled by this also...With the locking bolt ['takedown lever'] in 'locked' position it should not be possible for barrel extension ['receiver'] to stick out like that...

I have recently read of a mismatch like that, but it was on a pistol with a ground down extension lug...Maybe your lug is ground??? Or maybe the locking bolt has metal removed???

I think that you paid too much, and I would be more concerned with that, than with whether it is a reproduction or original...But I am not a collector, and if I were shopping for a 'Navy', I would be happy with this repro...But only if it was offered for about 1/3 what your price was...

Edit: I combined the two pics of the C/M's to compare 'floating' with 'nested', and now that I look at the front of the frame, I wonder if perhaps the frame was shaved to remove the original serial number...

wlyon · 01-10-2014, 08:48 PM

What you paid will determine if you got taken. The one thing you didn't get , in my opinion, is an original Navy. This one screams at you. Might make a good $800 shooter. Can you get your money back? Bill

Ben M. · 01-10-2014, 09:33 PM

how about a nice photo of the navy proofs?

Arminius · 01-11-2014, 06:16 AM

The Pistol cocks and I have dry fired it.

Yes , i have been taken, i paid much more ... of course, the ad and pix and description are away ... I doubt I´ll get my Money back, as the seller always said "I bought it in that condition in 1988, changed nothing, and seldom fired it" .

Of course I printed the ad and know where he lives, but he never claimed it to be totally original.

My greed.

I´ve been lusting for one since Long ...

:-(

:-/

Hermann

P.S.: yes. I should have walked out of the house, wait for his reaction, and post the pix at this Forum before ... I know

Arminius · 01-11-2014, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

I gotta tell ya..those Crowns are floating like they have helium in them...

I am sorry, what do you mean with that?

Hermann

Arminius · 01-11-2014, 06:54 AM

did I mention, that there is a nickeled mag ( in not so good cond ) with the gun, same Serial No "2961 a" on the wooden base, which has concentric rings on the "knobs"?

Thanks to all, but I feel rather frustrated at the Moment.

Hermann

alanint · 01-11-2014, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arminius

I am sorry, what do you mean with that?

Hermann

Herman, he means that the crown proofs are freshly struck and are clearly phony.

Norme · 01-11-2014, 10:11 AM

Hi Hermann, "Floating Crowns" are a descriptive term used by collectors to describe the Naval crown/M inspection marks on some early fake Navy Lugers. The crowns seem to float above the M's (second photo). A "Nested Crown" describes an inspection mark on a genuine gun where the crown seems to be sitting on the M (first photo). Unfortunately, since this distinction was discussed on the forums several years ago, most of the more recently faked Navies have nested crowns too.
As a collector whose first Navy Luger was also a fake (I now own 14 genuine ones!), I think I know how you feel. Use this as a learning experience, buy some reference books or read through the Archive section of the Navy Forum, right here on this website. I read every last post, it took many hours but I've found that it was time well spent!
Best regards, Norm

01-10-2014, 06:11 PM	#1
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	bitten by the Bug again Hello to all! Lugerforums was my second Gun Forum ( HiPowers are my LOVE ;-)), but somehow I got distracted ... got a SEVERE case of BRD ( Black Rifle Disease ), and besides, I have a Stress Job, Children, am a Hunter ... After my Mauser Parabellum of 1976 or 77, in BNIB condition I didn´t look for Lugers for a loooong time. Then Lightning struck. I don´t know why, but suddenly last Year I started looking for a Navy 6" Luger. One sold at an Auction for a solid € 3400. VERY nice IMO. And today, in an act of total mental disease I bought one myself. 1918, DWM, 6" Barrel, strawed parts, but reblued, markings somewhat shallow ( ??? ) ( I am no Expert ), seems to be done by a Master, though. One matching number nickeled mag with Wood base with concentric rings. somewhat shallow rifling, IMO. NEW REPRO RIG, with black Holster attached to wooden stock, sling, double mag pouch, was included. cleaning rod, too, no tool. Pic of Original Unit to which it was issued, with Name of WW II ancestor, which preserved the gun until 1988, then sold it to my Seller. Didn´t shoot it yet. Will try for pix. What should I look out for, I want to shoot it, since it´s reblued, occasionally, with Lapua Luger Load only. Shalll I get replacement FP, FP Spring, Recoil Spring, Extractor, Grips ( of course keeping the original parts! ) and shoot it occasionally? Thanks for any Input, Hermann

01-10-2014, 08:01 PM	#6
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	I´ll try

01-10-2014, 08:23 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	I gotta tell ya..those Crowns are floating like they have helium in them... __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-10-2014, 08:35 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	The Navy rear sight is a fake too.. The picture of the rear grip strap..the wooden grip does not fit at all..It should be flush and flat. I am curious to know something..in several photo's it appears the top cannon is jutting out beyond the frame just slightly. Will this pistol koch and fire? Usually if the top comes forward of the frame it throws the trigger lever away from the sear and the pistol is unable to fire. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-10-2014, 08:48 PM	#14
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,636 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,559 Times in 955 Posts	What you paid will determine if you got taken. The one thing you didn't get , in my opinion, is an original Navy. This one screams at you. Might make a good $800 shooter. Can you get your money back? Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-10-2014, 06:55 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Hermann, There is no such thing as an original 1918 dated Navy Luger. Several fake 1918 Navy Lugers were turned out here in the US over 10 years ago, and I hope the "1918" is just a typo on your part and not one of these. Regards, Norm

01-10-2014, 07:04 PM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Hernmann: Can you post photos? That may help. dju

01-10-2014, 07:31 PM	#4
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	i have a bad Feeling already. DWM on Toggle 1918 on Receiver. NO Markings on backstrap??? I´ll take pix ...soon!

01-10-2014, 07:47 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Hermann, The absence of unit marks on the back strap is not an issue. They were officially discontinued in 1916 and are seldom seen on late guns. You might find this thread interesting, it's a discussion of another 1918 dated "Navy". Regards, Norm http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ight=1918+Navy

01-10-2014, 08:06 PM	#7
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	why do people boost straw parts?????

01-10-2014, 08:19 PM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Front frame numbers photo? dju

01-10-2014, 08:24 PM	#10
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	tomorrow. The front number is VERY shallow. It matches the bottom of the mag ( on Wood ). Last number 61 everywhere. What do you all think?????? Have I been taken?

01-10-2014, 09:33 PM	#15
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 488 Thanks: 90 Thanked 123 Times in 83 Posts	how about a nice photo of the navy proofs?

01-11-2014, 06:16 AM	#16
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	The Pistol cocks and I have dry fired it. Yes , i have been taken, i paid much more ... of course, the ad and pix and description are away ... I doubt I´ll get my Money back, as the seller always said "I bought it in that condition in 1988, changed nothing, and seldom fired it" . Of course I printed the ad and know where he lives, but he never claimed it to be totally original. My greed. I´ve been lusting for one since Long ... :-( :-/ Hermann P.S.: yes. I should have walked out of the house, wait for his reaction, and post the pix at this Forum before ... I know

01-11-2014, 06:54 AM	#18
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	did I mention, that there is a nickeled mag ( in not so good cond ) with the gun, same Serial No "2961 a" on the wooden base, which has concentric rings on the "knobs"? Thanks to all, but I feel rather frustrated at the Moment. Hermann

01-11-2014, 10:11 AM	#20
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Hermann, "Floating Crowns" are a descriptive term used by collectors to describe the Naval crown/M inspection marks on some early fake Navy Lugers. The crowns seem to float above the M's (second photo). A "Nested Crown" describes an inspection mark on a genuine gun where the crown seems to be sitting on the M (first photo). Unfortunately, since this distinction was discussed on the forums several years ago, most of the more recently faked Navies have nested crowns too. As a collector whose first Navy Luger was also a fake (I now own 14 genuine ones!), I think I know how you feel. Use this as a learning experience, buy some reference books or read through the Archive section of the Navy Forum, right here on this website. I read every last post, it took many hours but I've found that it was time well spent! Best regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails Attached Images