Mauser's Rear Frame "Bump"...?

04-06-2002, 09:04 PM

Can anyone let me know when Mauser started building the rear frame "bump" to prevent the rear toggle link pin from falling out when the toggle assembly was in its full rear position ?

I have seen some Mauser S/42 coded lugers without this "bump".

Should this "bump" occur on all Mauser lugers, i.e. K-dates, G-dates, byf's, Banners, etc. ?

Appreciate any help...

Thor · 04-06-2002, 09:10 PM

Some K dates had them on them and some Ks had a thickened back edge so if they wanted the HUMP, they could machine metal off the bottom edge of the thickened wall, it was an attempt to keep the rear axle pin from sliping sideways under full recoil. MOST Mausers will have it, but they would leave it out for a while then put it back in. Some Navy Lugers approached this problem from a different angle, they made the head of the pin LARGER. Lots of fake NAVYS will have not have this thickened pin, but you have to check the years, not all Navys had this, I think! Thor

Dwight Gruber · 04-06-2002, 11:21 PM

My "G" date does not have it.

--Dwight

Thor · 04-07-2002, 12:39 AM

TRL reports "Most are without rear frame bump" Jan Still's book, Third Reich Lugers page 27

bill m · 04-07-2002, 02:57 AM

Thor · 04-07-2002, 08:16 PM

Nope! Now you got me searching the internet and all my books for one! You got me looking for one Bill! So far......bumpless It is interesting how Mauser thickened the back wall so they could make one if they wanted to. Thor

bill m · 04-07-2002, 10:02 PM

I have never seen or heard of one, and all the data on serial numbers and guns shows none have been recorded. The only possibility in my mind would be a really early G-date in the low "a" block, which would be a transition from the last K-dates. In my mind, there would be a slight possibility of one in this case, but all others I would be very reluctant to believe.

bill m · 04-07-2002, 10:44 PM

The possibility due to transition brings up the next point. It has been discussed repeatedly here that there was no set pattern as to production and use of parts -- I believe it was stated many times by some that "first in was not necessary first out". -- In my opinion this statement is not correct. There was a transition period with each change and this is when you find the odd configurations -- not before or not after. For instance, the Mauser "bump", or the sharpe barrel band, or change from strawed to blued small parts. The 1936 S/42 is a good example of the sharpe barrel band. The G-dates all had the sharpe barrel band and only the very early 1936's. There is a very short transition period where you find all this -- not thousands of Lugers later. These transition periods show that Lugers were made fairly close to the "first in, first out" concept. Otherwise you would have transition Lugers all throughout the production of each variation, which is just not the case and can be proven as such. Sometimes I get the feeling no one wants to hear about serial numbers or data, but there is still a lot to be learned about Lugers and the different variations, as it is not all in the books as some seem to think, and by recording serial numbers and their characteristics, we can record these transitions and improve our knowledge. I would encourage all when posting to give the entire serial number of their Luger, as it is important for data and for correct information.

BILL · 04-07-2002, 11:35 PM

It is interesting that people are not more forthcoming in 'revealing' the full serial number. I know it has been discussed and explained that 'exposing' the full serial might lead to legal problems down the line (i.e. a stolen pistol or a spurious claim by a con-artist that said pistol belongs to him). Actually, I don't see that happening often and if it were common would Ralph Shattuck or Jan Still or anyone, for that matter, advertise or allow photographs that list the serial number? How can someone expect to find out more about their pistol if they can only tell you it is serial# 396xx? Does that mean it might be 3969a? or 3961x? hard to figure. Maybe someone needs to tell me again why it is so reckless to divulge ones serial number.

Thor · 04-07-2002, 11:49 PM

I have Luger with serial number XXXX x. What can you tell me about it????? Answer, I can tell you, that assuming you are truthful, you have a Luger, perhaps a 4 digit with a subscript which means, "NOT MUCH"!

04-08-2002, 01:42 AM

I have always found it a bit odd, but always heard this growing up. I am guessing this is one of those things passed down from one collector to the next, that revealing your serial number can lead to fakery, stealing, getting you into trouble with the law etc.

I have a bit of trouble understanding, although it is a little bell in the back of my mind that you shouldn't release this type of info.

1. I don't have a Luger worth faking.

2. I really believe that a tracking of your serial number, where you got it from etc., will keep you out of trouble. If yours is a stolen gun, then so be it. But, that is why I have Luger books that say, the entire serial number of Luger is; 4 inch, 7401 d, with 1935 on the barrel, Spandau, blah, blah

ed

04-06-2002, 09:04 PM	#1
Wm."Pete" Ebbink Guest Posts: n/a	Mauser's Rear Frame "Bump"...? Can anyone let me know when Mauser started building the rear frame "bump" to prevent the rear toggle link pin from falling out when the toggle assembly was in its full rear position ? I have seen some Mauser S/42 coded lugers without this "bump". Should this "bump" occur on all Mauser lugers, i.e. K-dates, G-dates, byf's, Banners, etc. ? Appreciate any help...

04-06-2002, 09:10 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Mauser's Rear Frame "Bump"...? Some K dates had them on them and some Ks had a thickened back edge so if they wanted the HUMP, they could machine metal off the bottom edge of the thickened wall, it was an attempt to keep the rear axle pin from sliping sideways under full recoil. MOST Mausers will have it, but they would leave it out for a while then put it back in. Some Navy Lugers approached this problem from a different angle, they made the head of the pin LARGER. Lots of fake NAVYS will have not have this thickened pin, but you have to check the years, not all Navys had this, I think! Thor

04-06-2002, 11:21 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Re: Mauser's Rear Frame "Bump"...? My "G" date does not have it. --Dwight

04-07-2002, 12:39 AM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Mauser's Rear Frame "Bump"...? TRL reports "Most are without rear frame bump" Jan Still's book, Third Reich Lugers page 27

04-07-2002, 02:57 AM	#5
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Has anyone ever seen a G-date with a "bump"? (EOM)

04-07-2002, 08:16 PM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Has anyone ever seen a G-date with a "bump"? Nope! Now you got me searching the internet and all my books for one! You got me looking for one Bill! So far......bumpless It is interesting how Mauser thickened the back wall so they could make one if they wanted to. Thor

04-07-2002, 10:02 PM	#7
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mauser "bump" I have never seen or heard of one, and all the data on serial numbers and guns shows none have been recorded. The only possibility in my mind would be a really early G-date in the low "a" block, which would be a transition from the last K-dates. In my mind, there would be a slight possibility of one in this case, but all others I would be very reluctant to believe.

04-07-2002, 10:44 PM	#8
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Next Point The possibility due to transition brings up the next point. It has been discussed repeatedly here that there was no set pattern as to production and use of parts -- I believe it was stated many times by some that "first in was not necessary first out". -- In my opinion this statement is not correct. There was a transition period with each change and this is when you find the odd configurations -- not before or not after. For instance, the Mauser "bump", or the sharpe barrel band, or change from strawed to blued small parts. The 1936 S/42 is a good example of the sharpe barrel band. The G-dates all had the sharpe barrel band and only the very early 1936's. There is a very short transition period where you find all this -- not thousands of Lugers later. These transition periods show that Lugers were made fairly close to the "first in, first out" concept. Otherwise you would have transition Lugers all throughout the production of each variation, which is just not the case and can be proven as such. Sometimes I get the feeling no one wants to hear about serial numbers or data, but there is still a lot to be learned about Lugers and the different variations, as it is not all in the books as some seem to think, and by recording serial numbers and their characteristics, we can record these transitions and improve our knowledge. I would encourage all when posting to give the entire serial number of their Luger, as it is important for data and for correct information.

04-07-2002, 11:35 PM	#9
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Next Point It is interesting that people are not more forthcoming in 'revealing' the full serial number. I know it has been discussed and explained that 'exposing' the full serial might lead to legal problems down the line (i.e. a stolen pistol or a spurious claim by a con-artist that said pistol belongs to him). Actually, I don't see that happening often and if it were common would Ralph Shattuck or Jan Still or anyone, for that matter, advertise or allow photographs that list the serial number? How can someone expect to find out more about their pistol if they can only tell you it is serial# 396xx? Does that mean it might be 3969a? or 3961x? hard to figure. Maybe someone needs to tell me again why it is so reckless to divulge ones serial number.

04-07-2002, 11:49 PM	#10
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Next Point I have Luger with serial number XXXX x. What can you tell me about it????? Answer, I can tell you, that assuming you are truthful, you have a Luger, perhaps a 4 digit with a subscript which means, "NOT MUCH"!

04-08-2002, 01:42 AM	#11
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Next Point I have always found it a bit odd, but always heard this growing up. I am guessing this is one of those things passed down from one collector to the next, that revealing your serial number can lead to fakery, stealing, getting you into trouble with the law etc. I have a bit of trouble understanding, although it is a little bell in the back of my mind that you shouldn't release this type of info. 1. I don't have a Luger worth faking. 2. I really believe that a tracking of your serial number, where you got it from etc., will keep you out of trouble. If yours is a stolen gun, then so be it. But, that is why I have Luger books that say, the entire serial number of Luger is; 4 inch, 7401 d, with 1935 on the barrel, Spandau, blah, blah ed