Is this a naval issued Luger?

todesengel · 12-22-2014, 08:24 PM

I need your help. I believe I have a naval issued luger, North Atlantic?, but need some assistance as I am a babe in the woods with these things.

This is a 1939/42 dual marked with all matching numbers, including grips, firing pin, etc. This has one matching mag which is also marked to match the navy "rack number" I assume which is stamped into the backstrap. It also has the holster which is supposed to be delivered tomorow. This is non import marked but also does not have any capture papers. Oh, and the barrel is perfect, like it has never even been fired.

If anyone has additional info please feel free to share, and I greatly appreciate the help

Norme · 12-22-2014, 08:50 PM

Hi Robert, You are correct, you have a Nazi Navy Luger which was issued to the High Seas Fleet based at Wilhelmshaven. That double matched mag is a big plus. Congratulations on a great acquisition.
Regards, Norm

todesengel · 12-22-2014, 09:04 PM

Holster Pics

todesengel · 12-22-2014, 09:35 PM

The question of it being a faked piece was raised by someone, do you think that is possible with this one? Any other information that may be pertinent?

I will post pictures of the holster once it is in my possession

Norme · 12-22-2014, 09:51 PM

Hi Robert, I don't see any evidence of foul play, it looks legit to me.
Regards, Norm

DavidJayUden · 12-22-2014, 09:57 PM

I'm guessing that it would take a hands-on inspection to be reasonably sure, but even then can an expert be absolutely 100% certain?
It's an interesting dilemma we create once we get so heavily invested in a couple of crudely stamped markings.
But, for whatever it is worth, to me it looks good.
Actually it looks like a heck of a score...Congratulations.
dju

todesengel · 12-22-2014, 10:27 PM

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I know nothing of values on these things or history. I tried searching online but there really isn't a lot to go off of. I have a byf '41 I picked up a few years ago and a commercial .30 but that is the extent of my Luger knowledge.

I appreciate the feedback

lugercollector · 12-23-2014, 10:46 AM

Looks good to me.....1939 Navy Lugers are very uncommon!!..are you in Canada?...our troops brought back quite a few Navy marked WW2 Lugers!!!

todesengel · 12-23-2014, 10:51 AM

LC, no sir I am in Missouri. This came from the man who grabbed it in December 1944.

Thank you for the reply

sheepherder · 12-23-2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todesengel

This came from the man who grabbed it in December 1944.

Do you have the contact information of that man? Do you lnow "the story"???

A member here collects 'bringback' stories; this sounds like it could be a good one!

todesengel · 12-23-2014, 12:37 PM

Not much of a story, the guy said stuff was everywhere for the picking basically. No heroic tale (although I think all of those at Normandy were heroic), he just basically "picked them up"

hansfischer007 · 12-23-2014, 03:17 PM

I confess...I am a total novice when it comes to Lugers......so what made you know it was a Navy Issued.?....I would just like to know in case of 1 in a million I happen on one some day....to me it would be just a "regular army luger"...I would like to know the markings are or what to look for that would tell me it was Navy issued.......which of course would make it even better.....anyway.....just asking....Hans Fischer

todesengel · 12-23-2014, 03:33 PM

I didn't have an idea it was a navy until I got it home and started searching the internet. While I didn't find another 39/42 I did find other pistols with that same marking on it, the N and property number and they said it was a navy issue. Once I seen that I asked on the forums and it was confirmed that is what those markings stood for. When I bought it I thought it was a nice Luger, no thougts of anything else.

Sergio Natali · 12-23-2014, 04:26 PM

Norman

I'm not an expert on Navy Lugers BUT to me it looks like a genuine Kriegsmarine Variation, made by MAUSER between April 1939 and 1942, rear frame hump, with its N property number on the back strap, and what convinced me was the serial number included between 200r / 8250z.
Congratulations for the acquisition I would say!

Sergio

Ben M. · 12-23-2014, 05:26 PM

looks as tho the mauser sn's on the mags do not match but the navy unit marks do matched.

Norme · 12-23-2014, 05:34 PM

Hi Ben, Take a closer look. The first mag pictured is non-matching, but the second is a true double match, both it's serial number and it's Naval property number match those of the gun.
Regards, Norm

todesengel · 12-23-2014, 06:23 PM

I have seen the term "rear hump". Can you expand on exactly what you are referring to please?

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

Norman

I'm not an expert on Navy Lugers BUT to me it looks like a genuine Kriegsmarine Variation, made by MAUSER between April 1939 and 1942, rear frame hump, with its N property number on the back strap, and what convinced me was the serial number included between 200r / 8250z.
Congratulations for the acquisition I would say!

Sergio

todesengel · 12-23-2014, 06:22 PM

Yes one mag matches, the spare one I believe and the other serial does not and the property mark is a few off.

What do you guys think this thing is worth?

DavidJayUden · 12-23-2014, 10:59 PM

Look at the gun from the side, noting that right angle of the frame on the rear. Notice that the rear isn't a perfectly straight edge from bottom to top, but slightly bulges back toward the top edge. That "hump" is designed so that the main rear toggle pin can not work its way out during operation. And it was a feature distinctive to Mauser mfg. Lugers in the very late 30's. And it helps us ID a late 30's Mauser frame.
Hope this helps.
dju

todesengel · 12-24-2014, 12:16 AM

Thank you very much David

12-22-2014, 08:24 PM	#1
todesengel User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 25 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Is this a naval issued Luger? I need your help. I believe I have a naval issued luger, North Atlantic?, but need some assistance as I am a babe in the woods with these things. This is a 1939/42 dual marked with all matching numbers, including grips, firing pin, etc. This has one matching mag which is also marked to match the navy "rack number" I assume which is stamped into the backstrap. It also has the holster which is supposed to be delivered tomorow. This is non import marked but also does not have any capture papers. Oh, and the barrel is perfect, like it has never even been fired. If anyone has additional info please feel free to share, and I greatly appreciate the help Last edited by todesengel; 12-26-2014 at 03:49 PM.

12-22-2014, 09:04 PM	#3
todesengel User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 25 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Holster Pics Last edited by todesengel; 12-26-2014 at 03:51 PM.

12-23-2014, 03:17 PM	#12
hansfischer007 User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sunny Tennessee Posts: 233 Thanks: 509 Thanked 96 Times in 48 Posts	Navy.? I confess...I am a total novice when it comes to Lugers......so what made you know it was a Navy Issued.?....I would just like to know in case of 1 in a million I happen on one some day....to me it would be just a "regular army luger"...I would like to know the markings are or what to look for that would tell me it was Navy issued.......which of course would make it even better.....anyway.....just asking....Hans Fischer

12-23-2014, 04:26 PM	#14
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Norman I'm not an expert on Navy Lugers BUT to me it looks like a genuine Kriegsmarine Variation, made by MAUSER between April 1939 and 1942, rear frame hump, with its N property number on the back strap, and what convinced me was the serial number included between 200r / 8250z. Congratulations for the acquisition I would say! Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

12-22-2014, 08:50 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Robert, You are correct, you have a Nazi Navy Luger which was issued to the High Seas Fleet based at Wilhelmshaven. That double matched mag is a big plus. Congratulations on a great acquisition. Regards, Norm

12-22-2014, 09:35 PM	#4
todesengel User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 25 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	The question of it being a faked piece was raised by someone, do you think that is possible with this one? Any other information that may be pertinent? I will post pictures of the holster once it is in my possession

12-22-2014, 09:51 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Robert, I don't see any evidence of foul play, it looks legit to me. Regards, Norm

12-22-2014, 09:57 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'm guessing that it would take a hands-on inspection to be reasonably sure, but even then can an expert be absolutely 100% certain? It's an interesting dilemma we create once we get so heavily invested in a couple of crudely stamped markings. But, for whatever it is worth, to me it looks good. Actually it looks like a heck of a score...Congratulations. dju

12-22-2014, 10:27 PM	#7
todesengel User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 25 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I know nothing of values on these things or history. I tried searching online but there really isn't a lot to go off of. I have a byf '41 I picked up a few years ago and a commercial .30 but that is the extent of my Luger knowledge. I appreciate the feedback

12-23-2014, 10:46 AM	#8
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	Looks good to me.....1939 Navy Lugers are very uncommon!!..are you in Canada?...our troops brought back quite a few Navy marked WW2 Lugers!!!

12-23-2014, 10:51 AM	#9
todesengel User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 25 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	LC, no sir I am in Missouri. This came from the man who grabbed it in December 1944. Thank you for the reply

12-23-2014, 12:37 PM	#11
todesengel User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 25 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Not much of a story, the guy said stuff was everywhere for the picking basically. No heroic tale (although I think all of those at Normandy were heroic), he just basically "picked them up"

12-23-2014, 03:33 PM	#13
todesengel User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 25 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	I didn't have an idea it was a navy until I got it home and started searching the internet. While I didn't find another 39/42 I did find other pistols with that same marking on it, the N and property number and they said it was a navy issue. Once I seen that I asked on the forums and it was confirmed that is what those markings stood for. When I bought it I thought it was a nice Luger, no thougts of anything else.

12-23-2014, 05:26 PM	#15
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 488 Thanks: 90 Thanked 123 Times in 83 Posts	looks as tho the mauser sn's on the mags do not match but the navy unit marks do matched.

12-23-2014, 05:34 PM	#16
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Ben, Take a closer look. The first mag pictured is non-matching, but the second is a true double match, both it's serial number and it's Naval property number match those of the gun. Regards, Norm

12-23-2014, 06:22 PM	#18
todesengel User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 25 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Yes one mag matches, the spare one I believe and the other serial does not and the property mark is a few off. What do you guys think this thing is worth?

12-23-2014, 10:59 PM	#19
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Look at the gun from the side, noting that right angle of the frame on the rear. Notice that the rear isn't a perfectly straight edge from bottom to top, but slightly bulges back toward the top edge. That "hump" is designed so that the main rear toggle pin can not work its way out during operation. And it was a feature distinctive to Mauser mfg. Lugers in the very late 30's. And it helps us ID a late 30's Mauser frame. Hope this helps. dju

12-24-2014, 12:16 AM	#20
todesengel User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 25 Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Thank you very much David