Reloading for 9 mm Stoeger Navy

Bmi48219 · 04-02-2016, 03:07 AM

I'm new to the forum, been looking all over for a solution to my reload problem, this forum looks like it may be the place to ask:
I bought a Stoeger Navy model stainless Luger so I wouldn't ruin my two relics. Having a lot of trouble getting a reload to cycle the gun anywhere near reliably.
First I should say it cycles without a hitch using factory ammo. Tried several different brands of factory 115 FMJ loads, all work like they should. I can't get close with reloads. Usually (50 to 70 % of the time) the fired brass stove pipes instead of ejecting, once in a while a fresh round gets jambed against the top of the chamber opening.
I am using a Lee Hand Loader.
I full length size the brass & deprime 50 to 100 cases,
Clean them and mike the case length to Lee specs,
Prime the batch I'm working on,
Weigh each load (have tried 5.5 gr to 6.3 gr Unique in .1 grain increments, and seat Armscor 115 FMJ with a very light crimp.
Started out seating at 1.1625" COL and just tried 1.170 " COL.
This gun digests cheap Perfecta ammo that is shorter w/ no trouble.
No matter what load, length or bullet (experimented with plated 125 gr RNL too) it still fails to fully extract or eject. Just ordered some W231, thinking maybe Unique is too fast.
All the reloads that I can't get to cycle through the Stoeger work fine in my S&W 59, Radom and Astra 600/43.
Really hoping someone on this forum has experience with Reloading for a modern Stoeger replica. I don't think this gun has been shot much at all & everything works great using factory ammo.
Thanks
Vic

Sieger · 04-02-2016, 05:54 AM

Hi,

Use factory ammo then.

Most folks having Luger feeding problems have them with factory ammo.

Sieger

noylj · 04-02-2016, 08:59 AM

Every one of your problems is usually caused by the charge being too light to cycle the mass and springs of the gun.
How does the recoil of your loads feel compared to factory ammo of the same bullet weight that does cycle the gun? If it feels lighter, then you may up the charge.
If you are shooting outdoors, does factory ammo throw the case further than you reloads? If so, then you may up the charge.
Beyond that, there are two ways to go: faster powder for a quicker/shorter recoil impulse or a slower powder so you can generate even more powder and longer pressure curve to cycle the action.
Of, as Sieger says, stay with what works...

rhuff · 04-02-2016, 09:04 PM

I don't own a Stoeger Navy Luger, but do own originals and a Mauser Parabellum in Navy configuration. I am a shooter of all of my Lugers, and also a handloader. That said, I own a mixed parts shooter Luger that pretty much refuses to shoot my reloads!! I have been a handloader for more years than I want to admit to, and load for all of my handguns......except this one Luger.

I have tried 115gr and 124gr of different configuration bullets, Bullseye, Red Dot, Unique, Power Pistol, etc. powders, with only partial success for this one Luger. If I feed it PMC 115gr FMJ, it is soooo happy!!

My best handload for this problem Luger is Remington 115gr FMJ with 5.5-5.6gr Unique loaded long....1.160-1.165 OAL. This load will function reliably 80-85% + of the time. It functions 100% of the time in all of my other 9mm handguns.

Many Lugers are ammo sensitive(spring sensitive and mag sensitive), so if you found ammo that your Luger likes....feed it that!!

Bmi48219 · 04-03-2016, 02:52 AM

Thanks for you input guys,
Sieger & rhuff, your mutual suggestion is the most sensible route but, I have a problem with owning a shooter I can't reload for.
noylj, the recoil & report of factory ammo is noticeably stronger & louder than the reloads I have produced. I have only used Unique but with it I am pretty close to max loads now. I am going to try HP 38 & see if reliability improves. Saw a couple loads listed on IMR site for 4227. May try that too. Not familiar with burn rates, can you say how 4227 & HP 38 compare to Unique's burn rate?
I thought since factory loads work I would try to load with a powder similar to what they use. Surprisingly factory COI is pretty short but still works.
Thanks again for your advice

rhuff · 04-03-2016, 07:28 PM

I agree 100% that you should give it your best try to find a load that this Luger is happy with. I tried intermittently for years to find the "perfect load" for my problem child, but never found it.

You are soooo far ahead of the fella that owns a Luger that is NOT reliable with ANY ammo!!! Now this can be a problem, and most of us here recommend that he get his Luger working 100% on factory ammo first, then try to copy the factory ammo that his Luger likes. You already know what ammo makes your Stoeger happy. That is a LARGE step forward.

From my burn rate chart (Hodgdon) HP38/231 powder is a bit faster than Unique. H4227 is a rifle powder and is slower then 296/H110, 2400, and Blue Dot. I don't believe that you will like using this powder in 9mm brass, but of course, your decision. Good luck.

ithacaartist · 04-03-2016, 09:21 PM

I've heard that the Winchester recipe for the white box ammo uses 231 powder, with their bullets, brass, and primers. Theoretically, you could load clones of these rounds...

Bmi48219 · 04-04-2016, 01:45 AM

Ithacartist & rhuff
Your opinions make sense, have HP38 available so will give it a try.
Emailed Winchester last week about what Win powder they used but no response. Cloning white box would solve my dilemma and keep the rest of my 9's fed too. I am probably grasping at straws trying 4227 but it worked when Unique didn't loading for my AMT Automag III .30 carbine. that one has a 6 3/4" barrel, not much longer than the Stoeger navy.
Thanks again for the suggestions
I noticed the forum has a separate area for "modern" Lugers, hope I didn't break with protocol posting this here.
This is what it looks like when it isn't malfunctioning if I can get the photo attached.

Vic

04-02-2016, 03:07 AM	#1
Bmi48219 User Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Reloading for 9 mm Stoeger Navy I'm new to the forum, been looking all over for a solution to my reload problem, this forum looks like it may be the place to ask: I bought a Stoeger Navy model stainless Luger so I wouldn't ruin my two relics. Having a lot of trouble getting a reload to cycle the gun anywhere near reliably. First I should say it cycles without a hitch using factory ammo. Tried several different brands of factory 115 FMJ loads, all work like they should. I can't get close with reloads. Usually (50 to 70 % of the time) the fired brass stove pipes instead of ejecting, once in a while a fresh round gets jambed against the top of the chamber opening. I am using a Lee Hand Loader. I full length size the brass & deprime 50 to 100 cases, Clean them and mike the case length to Lee specs, Prime the batch I'm working on, Weigh each load (have tried 5.5 gr to 6.3 gr Unique in .1 grain increments, and seat Armscor 115 FMJ with a very light crimp. Started out seating at 1.1625" COL and just tried 1.170 " COL. This gun digests cheap Perfecta ammo that is shorter w/ no trouble. No matter what load, length or bullet (experimented with plated 125 gr RNL too) it still fails to fully extract or eject. Just ordered some W231, thinking maybe Unique is too fast. All the reloads that I can't get to cycle through the Stoeger work fine in my S&W 59, Radom and Astra 600/43. Really hoping someone on this forum has experience with Reloading for a modern Stoeger replica. I don't think this gun has been shot much at all & everything works great using factory ammo. Thanks Vic

04-03-2016, 09:21 PM	#7
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	I've heard that the Winchester recipe for the white box ammo uses 231 powder, with their bullets, brass, and primers. Theoretically, you could load clones of these rounds... __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

04-04-2016, 01:45 AM	#8
Bmi48219 User Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Stoeger 9 mm reloading Ithacartist & rhuff Your opinions make sense, have HP38 available so will give it a try. Emailed Winchester last week about what Win powder they used but no response. Cloning white box would solve my dilemma and keep the rest of my 9's fed too. I am probably grasping at straws trying 4227 but it worked when Unique didn't loading for my AMT Automag III .30 carbine. that one has a 6 3/4" barrel, not much longer than the Stoeger navy. Thanks again for the suggestions I noticed the forum has a separate area for "modern" Lugers, hope I didn't break with protocol posting this here. This is what it looks like when it isn't malfunctioning if I can get the photo attached. Vic Attached Thumbnails

04-02-2016, 05:54 AM	#2
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Hi, Use factory ammo then. Most folks having Luger feeding problems have them with factory ammo. Sieger

04-02-2016, 08:59 AM	#3
noylj User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Every one of your problems is usually caused by the charge being too light to cycle the mass and springs of the gun. How does the recoil of your loads feel compared to factory ammo of the same bullet weight that does cycle the gun? If it feels lighter, then you may up the charge. If you are shooting outdoors, does factory ammo throw the case further than you reloads? If so, then you may up the charge. Beyond that, there are two ways to go: faster powder for a quicker/shorter recoil impulse or a slower powder so you can generate even more powder and longer pressure curve to cycle the action. Of, as Sieger says, stay with what works...

04-02-2016, 09:04 PM	#4
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	I don't own a Stoeger Navy Luger, but do own originals and a Mauser Parabellum in Navy configuration. I am a shooter of all of my Lugers, and also a handloader. That said, I own a mixed parts shooter Luger that pretty much refuses to shoot my reloads!! I have been a handloader for more years than I want to admit to, and load for all of my handguns......except this one Luger. I have tried 115gr and 124gr of different configuration bullets, Bullseye, Red Dot, Unique, Power Pistol, etc. powders, with only partial success for this one Luger. If I feed it PMC 115gr FMJ, it is soooo happy!! My best handload for this problem Luger is Remington 115gr FMJ with 5.5-5.6gr Unique loaded long....1.160-1.165 OAL. This load will function reliably 80-85% + of the time. It functions 100% of the time in all of my other 9mm handguns. Many Lugers are ammo sensitive(spring sensitive and mag sensitive), so if you found ammo that your Luger likes....feed it that!!

04-03-2016, 02:52 AM	#5
Bmi48219 User Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks for you input guys, Sieger & rhuff, your mutual suggestion is the most sensible route but, I have a problem with owning a shooter I can't reload for. noylj, the recoil & report of factory ammo is noticeably stronger & louder than the reloads I have produced. I have only used Unique but with it I am pretty close to max loads now. I am going to try HP 38 & see if reliability improves. Saw a couple loads listed on IMR site for 4227. May try that too. Not familiar with burn rates, can you say how 4227 & HP 38 compare to Unique's burn rate? I thought since factory loads work I would try to load with a powder similar to what they use. Surprisingly factory COI is pretty short but still works. Thanks again for your advice

04-03-2016, 07:28 PM	#6
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	I agree 100% that you should give it your best try to find a load that this Luger is happy with. I tried intermittently for years to find the "perfect load" for my problem child, but never found it. You are soooo far ahead of the fella that owns a Luger that is NOT reliable with ANY ammo!!! Now this can be a problem, and most of us here recommend that he get his Luger working 100% on factory ammo first, then try to copy the factory ammo that his Luger likes. You already know what ammo makes your Stoeger happy. That is a LARGE step forward. From my burn rate chart (Hodgdon) HP38/231 powder is a bit faster than Unique. H4227 is a rifle powder and is slower then 296/H110, 2400, and Blue Dot. I don't believe that you will like using this powder in 9mm brass, but of course, your decision. Good luck.