Another 1908 Commercial

spacecoast · 04-13-2017, 09:32 PM

Several of these have been posted lately, hence the "Another".

This 9mm gun was mis-described in a recent auction as a "1920 Commercial" and I was able to pick it up for slightly more than a shooter price. The numbers match and it has the later lazy Crown/N proofs, but no hold open, grip safety or stock lug. Curious about the hold open since my 1906 American Eagle barely 4,000 guns before it has one. G&S puts the manufacture date somewhere in 1912.

I'm thinking this is original finish, but welcome your comments as to such. On the plus side, the barrel serial has nice halos and the interior areas are properly in the white, as is the end of the barrel. The end of the toggle pin isn't as clean as I would like it to be and doesn't have the dimple that we like to see (maybe it's been removed?). The front and back strap are not worn much at all but have a light sprinkling of brown oxidation under strong light. There isn't much of a toggle mark on the back of the frame. The sides of the extractor are in the white.

I was attracted to bid on this gun since I didn't previously have one of these, it lacked a stock lug, and it was similar in many respects to my 1908 Bulgarian and I thought a comparison would be interesting. The grips are not numbered but one has a + symbol. The magazine that came with it is a worn but original-looking DWM military with a serial of 3494 + if anyone's interested in a trade.

Pistol · 04-14-2017, 12:10 AM

I like it

Edward Tinker · 04-14-2017, 09:51 AM

nice 9mm - I like it too

klaus 3338 · 04-14-2017, 10:12 AM

almost all of them went to German officers of the Imperial Army

spacecoast · 04-14-2017, 12:05 PM

Thank you Klaus, I had not heard that before.

Pistol · 04-14-2017, 02:14 PM

See if "Prv" is stamped in the inside of the mag well. I think the consensus is that "Prv" means private purchase and is mostly seen in earlier Bug proofed commercials. Just curious. I have one that is not far off from your serial number without th Prv in the mag well.

Dwight Gruber · 04-17-2017, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistol

...I think the consensus is that "Prv" means private purchase...

"Consensus" doesn't mean it is factual...

--Dwight

Pistol · 04-17-2017, 10:21 PM

I think the ones I could find on the forum were bug proofed and
Pre-1913.

Dwight, how many are reported on your commercial list? Also, has PRV been reported elsewhere, like on the frame?

Dwight Gruber · 04-19-2017, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistol

Dwight, how many are reported on your commercial list? Also, has PRV been reported elsewhere, like on the frame?

You mean PRV? I haven't been keeping track of that datum.

--Dwight

Pistol · 04-04-2019, 11:45 AM

I found this thread to be very informative regarding five digit serial numbered commercial lugers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by klaus 3338

Private Lugers of the Landau liste
39317,39359,39514,39537,39578,39637,39721*,39724,39763,39797,39805,39826
40058,40127,40271,40440,40602,40848,40879,40886
41122,41137,41175,41572,41849,
42216
43084,43468,43541,
44790
49448,49804,
50935
51004,51072,51125,51191,51196,
52305,52328,52360,52579,52638,52771,52813,52929,52958,
53072,53341*
55802,55832,55842,
56378,56557,56599,56860*,56898,56927,56936,56948,56964,
57046,57054,57061,57096,57120,57127,57130,57140,57201,57204,57239,57247, 57273,57369,
57388,57705,57998
58179,58193,58317,58426*,58735,58739,58763,58806,58810,58813,58828,58847 ,58861*
59246,59346,59454,59621,59669,59698,59738,59955,
60310
________________________________________________________________________ __________
39721 vom B. 23. Inf. Reg.
53341 + 58861 vom B. 12. Feld- Art. Reg.
56860 vom B. 18. Inf. Reg
58426 vom B. 5. Feld Art. Reg.

„Außer der Reihe“: 5. Feld.- Art.- Reg. I. Abteilung Nr. 65797
(gesamt 101 P08 mit fünfstelliger Seriennummer zuzüglich weiteren 13 mit 2-4 stelliger Nummer ergibt 115/ 116 private/ zivile P08)

klaus 3338 · 04-15-2017, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacecoast

Thank you Klaus, I had not heard that before.

In connection with adding the hold open and the new front sight were the Luger pistols enumerated with their serial numbers by the competent Artillery Depots in connection with the regiments. In those list are also enumerated the private Lugers of the officers with their serial numbers in the range between 39000 to 60000. According to the lists were 16,5 Lugers issued to the Officers on an average of a Regiment. So one can try to find out the numbers of the Lugers issued to German officers in 1914. There were 182 Infantry Regiments with about 3000 private purchased Lugers of the officers. We had to add those of the cavalry, field and foot Artillery, reserve Regiment and so on.
My English is poor but I hope you will know what I mean when I say that most of the Commercial 1908 Lugers were owned by Officers of the German Army.

spacecoast · 04-14-2017, 02:30 PM

Quote:

See if "Prv" is stamped in the inside of the mag well. I think the consensus is that "Prv" means private purchase and is mostly seen in earlier Bug proofed commercials. Just curious. I have one that is not far off from your serial number without th Prv in the mag well.

I'll check and let you know.

spacecoast · 04-14-2017, 09:24 PM

No marks in the mag well.

Pistol · 04-15-2017, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacecoast

No marks in the mag well.

Thanks.

klaus 3338 · 04-15-2017, 02:23 PM

...and your Luger does not have the hold open added. Saxon and Bavarian Lugers do not have the hold open added and only half of the Württemberg Lugers have the hold open added and the new front sight.

klaus 3338 · 04-15-2017, 02:25 PM

Private Lugers of the Landau liste
39317,39359,39514,39537,39578,39637,39721*,39724,39763,39797,39805,39826
40058,40127,40271,40440,40602,40848,40879,40886
41122,41137,41175,41572,41849,
42216
43084,43468,43541,
44790
49448,49804,
50935
51004,51072,51125,51191,51196,
52305,52328,52360,52579,52638,52771,52813,52929,52958,
53072,53341*
55802,55832,55842,
56378,56557,56599,56860*,56898,56927,56936,56948,56964,
57046,57054,57061,57096,57120,57127,57130,57140,57201,57204,57239,57247, 57273,57369,
57388,57705,57998
58179,58193,58317,58426*,58735,58739,58763,58806,58810,58813,58828,58847 ,58861*
59246,59346,59454,59621,59669,59698,59738,59955,
60310
________________________________________________________________________ __________
39721 vom B. 23. Inf. Reg.
53341 + 58861 vom B. 12. Feld- Art. Reg.
56860 vom B. 18. Inf. Reg
58426 vom B. 5. Feld Art. Reg.

„Außer der Reihe“: 5. Feld.- Art.- Reg. I. Abteilung Nr. 65797
(gesamt 101 P08 mit fünfstelliger Seriennummer zuzüglich weiteren 13 mit 2-4 stelliger Nummer ergibt 115/ 116 private/ zivile P08)

klaus 3338 · 04-15-2017, 02:29 PM

"found" five commercial Lugers which are enumerated in the Landau Artillery Depot list
They are marked with a small star.
see above and under lfd. Nr 34 of the copy of a page of the list which is dated 1914

cirelaw · 04-15-2017, 02:44 PM

Very Very Impressive! Good Enough for Any Imperial Officer!!

spacecoast · 04-15-2017, 09:46 PM

Really interesting Klauss, thank you for posting this information.

Pistol · 04-16-2017, 09:12 PM

Thank you Klaus for posting this info. I had been trying to find the list.

04-13-2017, 09:32 PM	#1
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	Another 1908 Commercial Several of these have been posted lately, hence the "Another". This 9mm gun was mis-described in a recent auction as a "1920 Commercial" and I was able to pick it up for slightly more than a shooter price. The numbers match and it has the later lazy Crown/N proofs, but no hold open, grip safety or stock lug. Curious about the hold open since my 1906 American Eagle barely 4,000 guns before it has one. G&S puts the manufacture date somewhere in 1912. I'm thinking this is original finish, but welcome your comments as to such. On the plus side, the barrel serial has nice halos and the interior areas are properly in the white, as is the end of the barrel. The end of the toggle pin isn't as clean as I would like it to be and doesn't have the dimple that we like to see (maybe it's been removed?). The front and back strap are not worn much at all but have a light sprinkling of brown oxidation under strong light. There isn't much of a toggle mark on the back of the frame. The sides of the extractor are in the white. I was attracted to bid on this gun since I didn't previously have one of these, it lacked a stock lug, and it was similar in many respects to my 1908 Bulgarian and I thought a comparison would be interesting. The grips are not numbered but one has a + symbol. The magazine that came with it is a worn but original-looking DWM military with a serial of 3494 + if anyone's interested in a trade. Attached Thumbnails __________________ My avatars are the Bulgarian word for "Fire", as seen on my 1900, 1906 and 1908 Bulgarian Contract DWM Lugers. Looking for a DWM Commercial side plate #95

04-14-2017, 12:05 PM	#5
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	Thank you Klaus, I had not heard that before. __________________ My avatars are the Bulgarian word for "Fire", as seen on my 1900, 1906 and 1908 Bulgarian Contract DWM Lugers. Looking for a DWM Commercial side plate #95

04-14-2017, 09:24 PM	#13
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	No marks in the mag well. __________________ My avatars are the Bulgarian word for "Fire", as seen on my 1900, 1906 and 1908 Bulgarian Contract DWM Lugers. Looking for a DWM Commercial side plate #95

04-15-2017, 02:29 PM	#17
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 411 Times in 160 Posts	"found" five commercial Lugers which are enumerated in the Landau Artillery Depot list They are marked with a small star. see above and under lfd. Nr 34 of the copy of a page of the list which is dated 1914 Attached Thumbnails

04-15-2017, 09:46 PM	#19
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	Really interesting Klauss, thank you for posting this information. __________________ My avatars are the Bulgarian word for "Fire", as seen on my 1900, 1906 and 1908 Bulgarian Contract DWM Lugers. Looking for a DWM Commercial side plate #95

04-14-2017, 12:10 AM	#2
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 428 Thanks: 448 Thanked 220 Times in 99 Posts	I like it

04-14-2017, 09:51 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	nice 9mm - I like it too

04-14-2017, 10:12 AM	#4
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 411 Times in 160 Posts	almost all of them went to German officers of the Imperial Army

04-14-2017, 02:14 PM	#6
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 428 Thanks: 448 Thanked 220 Times in 99 Posts	See if "Prv" is stamped in the inside of the mag well. I think the consensus is that "Prv" means private purchase and is mostly seen in earlier Bug proofed commercials. Just curious. I have one that is not far off from your serial number without th Prv in the mag well.

04-17-2017, 10:21 PM	#8
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 428 Thanks: 448 Thanked 220 Times in 99 Posts	I think the ones I could find on the forum were bug proofed and Pre-1913. Dwight, how many are reported on your commercial list? Also, has PRV been reported elsewhere, like on the frame?

04-15-2017, 02:23 PM	#15
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 411 Times in 160 Posts	...and your Luger does not have the hold open added. Saxon and Bavarian Lugers do not have the hold open added and only half of the Württemberg Lugers have the hold open added and the new front sight.

04-15-2017, 02:25 PM	#16
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 411 Times in 160 Posts	Private Lugers of the Landau liste 39317,39359,39514,39537,39578,39637,39721,39724,39763,39797,39805,39826 40058,40127,40271,40440,40602,40848,40879,40886 41122,41137,41175,41572,41849, 42216 43084,43468,43541, 44790 49448,49804, 50935 51004,51072,51125,51191,51196, 52305,52328,52360,52579,52638,52771,52813,52929,52958, 53072,53341 55802,55832,55842, 56378,56557,56599,56860,56898,56927,56936,56948,56964, 57046,57054,57061,57096,57120,57127,57130,57140,57201,57204,57239,57247, 57273,57369, 57388,57705,57998 58179,58193,58317,58426,58735,58739,58763,58806,58810,58813,58828,58847 ,58861* 59246,59346,59454,59621,59669,59698,59738,59955, 60310 ________________________________________________________________________ __________ 39721 vom B. 23. Inf. Reg. 53341 + 58861 vom B. 12. Feld- Art. Reg. 56860 vom B. 18. Inf. Reg 58426 vom B. 5. Feld Art. Reg. „Außer der Reihe“: 5. Feld.- Art.- Reg. I. Abteilung Nr. 65797 (gesamt 101 P08 mit fünfstelliger Seriennummer zuzüglich weiteren 13 mit 2-4 stelliger Nummer ergibt 115/ 116 private/ zivile P08)

04-15-2017, 02:44 PM	#18
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Very Very Impressive! Good Enough for Any Imperial Officer!!

04-16-2017, 09:12 PM	#20
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 428 Thanks: 448 Thanked 220 Times in 99 Posts	Thank you Klaus for posting this info. I had been trying to find the list.