1914 American?

[mskirv]

I don't know a thing about any of this, except what I've learned in a brief visit here. I've inherited what my father believed to be a 1914 American edition. It has the eagle, the Germany stamp, and all the numbers match on all the parts. Seems to be in excellent condition; Blue, straw, all intact. Was there such thing as an AE made in 1914? And anyone care to give me an idea as to its value? Thanks. Glad to have any help at all.

[Johnny Peppers]

The serial number would be a great help in identiying your Luger if pictures are not available.

[mskirv]

The serial is a 6 digit number beginning with 48 and there is also a 5 digit number stamped above that;I'm not sure what that number might be. Did they make an American edition in 1914? Because so far, I haven't really seen anything about one. Of course, I know next to nothing about any of this. I'm glad someone out there does...

[Johnny Peppers]

The serial number for a Luger will be found on the front of the frame directly below the barrel. Commercial serial numbers never went past 5 digits. None of the commercial pistols manufactured in 1914 would have had the American Eagle on the chamber. Also a 1914 commercial would be in the low to mid 70000 serial number range.
If the serial number is in the 48,000 range (and not 480,000) it could very well be a 1906 American Eagle. Without more information there is very little that can be added.

[mskirv]

Okay, (duh.. so now that I feel like a total dork), you are right. The serial # IS 5 digits, beginning with 48, and the last 2 digits match all the other stampings on the other parts. But there is that 2nd 5 digit # stamped above the serial # in a different (smaller) type of stamp. Do you know how many of these American editions were made and how many may still be in circulation? Also, I looked on the technical info page and I see the markings are the ones that look like a crown(?) with a B or a U beneath. When loaded a lever pops up that says "LOADED", (I'm not looking right at it but I believe it is in all caps). We've promised to never sell it, but to keep it in the family (Dad's wishes), but do we have any idea (ballpark) what the value might be (assuming it is a 1906 and in excellent condition)?

[Doubs]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but additional information would be helpful.

What caliber is it chambered for? (.30 or 9mm)

What is the barrel length measured from the front of the breechface to muzzle. (Pencil down the barrel with the action closed will give you the measurement. Please be certain it's unloaded.)

Does it have a grip safety?

Is there any marking for the safety? ("Safe" or "Geseichert")

Any other markings that you see.

Don't be discouraged. We're getting there, slowly but surely! We'd like to know what you have too.

[mskirv]

Hey there again [img]smile.gif[/img] In case you haven't guessed, I'm a girl (Not sure why that matters, except maybe you'll forgive me for not knowing very much about the lingo here or about guns at all for that matter). The barrel is 4 3/4" acording to the pencil test. There are 2 safeties, one in the palm and one on the thumb side if the gun is held in the right hand. On the underneath side of the barrel are 3 of those little crown thingys; the one on the left has a B underneath, in the middle (lower than the other 2) has a U underneath and the 3rd one on the right is not legible on the bottom half of the letter, could be an O,C or G (?). Below the three crown emblems with their letters is a 5 digit number beginning with 17, then below that is the 5 digit serial number beginning with 48, (I know it's the ser # because it is consistent with the last 2 digits which are on all the other gun parts). The B and U (with the crowns) are also on the thumb side just below (I guess to the left of) where the Eagle is. It has the curly DWM on the front half of the pop-up lever. Oddly there is a small hole drilled in the handgrip on the finger(?) side about dead-center, I have no idea about that. Maybe an emblem or something? it appears to be threaded, and it looks to be factory. The cartridges say "30 Luger", guess that means 30 caliber..(?). Most of the metal is the dark blue/grey color except certain places are gold color; The trigger, some (pins?) in front of and behind the trigger, and some others that are hard to describe (a round flat bumpy button sorta like the mag release, also a long skinny piece on the finger side up just below the big round (? thing?). The handgrip is a nice light/medium brown color, not too worn. Dad told us it was manufactured in order to drive gun manufaturers out of business prior to WW1, but he thought it was made in 1914 for some reason. He made me write this down: " 32 caliber necked down from a 9mm" He didn't have accesss to the "Lugerforum" and went by what he was told by various "experts". He bought the gun 2nd hand about 50 years ago. I may be able to get some info regarding the previous owner, I'm not sure. Does any of this help? There are no other markings except what looks like a hand-scratched B on the finger side above the trigger, like where a kid might try to put his initial on his bicycle or something(?). I can't find anywhere that says "safe" in any language, but there isa the "LOADED" lever that pops up when a cartridge pushes it up. Okay, gnaw on this awhile, and ask away if you have any more questions. Just keep in mind who you're talking to here... [img]smile.gif[/img] BTW, I think this is extremely interesting. Maybe I've got me a new passion.

[Thor]

Welcome Melissa to the Lugerforum and a new and exciting hobby!

[Edward Tinker]

Well there, that does make a difference, you see in in this forum, we are a bit prejudiced! [img]biggrin.gif[/img] Towards owners of Lugers!! [img]biggrin.gif[/img] So, if you are falling into our company, you are more than welcomed! The sharing of information, the history, the way the internal mechanisms work, is all very fascinating to many of us. We cut slack for anybody, and try to cut the slack for newbies the most. 

So, with your further information, I would say that you Dad was given some slight misinformation. And if he was anything like me, you sometimes get told something by those fireside experts and it sticks in your head and you believe it, only to find out much later it was wrong. [img]wink.gif[/img]

So, more than likely, someone told him it was made around 1914, because 50 years ago, there was not as much information available as there is now. As Johnny stated, â??If the serial number is in the 48,000 range, it could very well be a 1906 American Eagleâ?�.
The two safeties, with the grip safety and manual thumb safety show it as a 1906 model.
The Loaded indicator is correct for an American Commercial, in Germany and Holland it would be Geladen, while Bulgarian and Russian would be in their language (spellcheck wonâ??t tell me how to spell Cyleric).
Of course DWM is the manufacturer, and is so marked on the toggle.
30 Luger is the American term for 7.65 mm, which was an older cartridge and the 9 mm eventually came from it. (the different militaryâ??s wanted a stronger cartridge and so the 7.65 was expanded or necked UP making the 9 mm).
On our Technical pages it states this for the Crown B: 1. German commercial barrel proof. Found (with proof 3) on some 7.65 m/m 1900 and 1906 commercial Lugers.

Hopefully that helped a little?

Stay around, we donâ??t get very many ladies interested in Lugers and it can be very fun and fascinating!

Ed

[Dwight Gruber]

Melissa, check your private messages. (Do this by clicking "my profile" at the top of the Forum screen.)

[quote]Originally posted by mskirv:
<strong>On the underneath side of the barrel are 3 of those little crown thingys; the one on the left has a B underneath, in the middle (lower than the other 2) has a U underneath and the 3rd one on the right is not legible on the bottom half of the letter, could be an O,C or G (?). Below the three crown emblems with their letters is a 5 digit number beginning with 17, then below that is the 5 digit serial number beginning with 48...

I can't find anywhere that says "safe" in any language...</strong><hr></blockquote>

You note that the proofs and the first number are under the barrel proper. Is the second number also on the barrel, or is it on the front of the frame?

If the safety lever is placed in the up position, does it uncover a shiny-polished area?

And welcome to a group of similarly passionate Luger owners.

--Dwight

[Johnny Peppers]

Melissa,
You do indeed have a Model 1906 "American Eagle" as evidenced by the Great Seal of the United States on the top of the receiver. The proofs on the barrel are the letters B, U, and G each surmounted by a crown. This is referred to by collectors as being "BUG" proofed. The G is found only on the barrel and indicates a proofed rifled barrel. The pistol was probably made in the 1906 to 1908 time frame, but was definitely not made in 1914. The "BUG" proofs were discontinued in the 1912 time frame and replaced with an N surmounted by a crown.

[Ron Wood]

Melissa,
Your ability to observe and describe what you see is terrific! There isn't any doubt about the model of your father's Luger, as a couple of our experts have already identified. Just to add our "lingo" to your descriptions here are some terms:
1)"the front half of the pop-up lever" is called the "forward toggle link". The mechanical action of the Luger is called a toggle action and consists of the breech block, the forward toggle link (where the DWM is located) and the rear toggle link where the rear sight is located.
2)"a round flat bumpy button sorta like the mag release" is the magazine release - score one for Melissa.
3)"a long skinny piece on the finger side up just below the big round (? thing?)" The long skinny piece is the "thumb safety" which, in the up position, blocks the grip safety from being depressed. Sort of a "safety safety". The big round things are called "toggle knobs" (a lot of imagination went into that one [img]smile.gif[/img] ) and as you have probably already figured out, these are what you grasp to work the action to load the gun.
4)"the "LOADED" lever that pops up when a cartridge pushes it up" is called the "extractor" since, when the gun is fired, this piece extracts the empty cartridge case from the chamber so that the next round can be loaded. Also, as you have observed, it indicates when a round is in the chamber.

You have a very collectable Luger. There are a few things that makes it difficult for us to estimate the value. First is the overall condition. We would have to see pictures, left, right and top to get an idea of condition. Next is that odd hole in the left grip. Don't know what that is but a picture would help. And last is the "B" scratched probably on what is called the "side plate" or "trigger plate". Scratched on markings don't help the value of collector weapons.

Along with the other guys I will add my Welcome to the Forum! Lugers are a fascinating hobby and I hope you will stay with us and learn more.

[Dwight Gruber]

[quote]Originally posted by mskirv:
<strong> [img]smile.gif[/img] BTW, I think this is extremely interesting. Maybe I've got me a new passion.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Just wait 'til you go to buy your -next- Luger! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

--Dwight

[mskirv]

Wow! Thanks for all the great info! AND for making me feel so welcome. To answer a few questions: The serial number is on the bottom of the barrel beneath the BUG and the other 5 digit number (that starts with 17) and it is also on the front of the frame where it says GERMANY. Also, when the thumb safety is moved forward, there is a shiny polished area behind it, Why is that? So, what is that 17--- number anyway? And about how many of these guns from this era are around.. anyone know? I'm anxious to know what else you all might think so I'll get you some photos downloaded in the next couple days.. The problem is that I know less about computers than I do about Lugers! [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] oops.

[John Sabato]

Let me add my welcome to the Lugerforum Melissa.

About that Shiney spot? That throws something new into the mix...Let me just say that "We" are anxiously awaiting the photos of your Luger.

Sounds like you have a real family treasure and a piece of history in your possession.

The photos should tell it all.

[Ron Wood]

Melissa,

"So, what is that 17--- number anyway?" The answer to that is found in a great book called "World of Lugers - Proof Marks" by Sam Costanzo. I quote him: "Proof stamped on the underside of the barrel to conform to the English proof laws of 1894. Spells out bore diameter in gauge of lead balls of that gauge diameter that will make a pound. This marking was used on 7.65mm (30 caliber) 1900 through 1906 models."

The shiny area that appears when you move the thumb safety to the upper position is the way DWM marked early Lugers with the grip safety to indicate that the thumb safety is "on" and the pistol can not be fired. If you go to the Member Gallery on page 3 there is an album called "Swiss Family". If you look in that album you will see that all of the 1900 and 1906 models there have this shiny polished safety area.

[Doubs]

Just an observation. The gold "bumpy" thing on the thumb side of the frame near the rear top is the safety.

The long skinny flat piece (straw colored) on the finger side is the ejector. The ejector will very slightly curve inward at the front. When the action is open and you look inside, you'll see a flat-top right angle triangle, with the flat portion forward, on the right side of the slide. That's the actual part that ejects the case as it's extracted from the chamber. The extended part of it is actually a flat spring.

BTW, you did a better job of describing your pistol than many men could who have years of experience with guns.

[Ron Wood]

Doubs
I believe your interpretation of the "long skinny thing" is correct. I was thinking of the finger side as being the left side where your fingers wrap around, but now that I think about it, it is a better description of the ejector on the right side. Oh well, win some - lose some. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Doubs]

[quote]Originally posted by Ron Wood:
<strong>Doubs
I believe your interpretation of the "long skinny thing" is correct. [img]smile.gif[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote>

Ron, between all of us I believe we've given a pretty good explaination of the various parts the young lady has so well described. I'm also curious what the extra five digit number is. My own 1906 AE has only the 5 digit serial number and "Germany" stamped on the front of the frame. I hope Melissa is able to provide some pictures for us to at least see the position of the numbers. The 1906, IMO, is possibly the most elegant of all Lugers with it's slender tapered barrel, no stock lug and grip safety. I also have a Portugese "M2" that is quite nice.

[mskirv]

Help... Okay, I took some photos (5 of them) but they aren't that great. I cut the top off a few, and then I'm not sure I "uploaded" them correctly. I think all ya'll will be able to ascertain is the fact that I do indeed posess some sort of Luger, and that I have a nice manicure! [img]wink.gif[/img] I uploaded the pictures (I think??) but how do I get them to here?