New Guy with 1918 Erfurt Luger

runscott · 02-26-2020, 08:08 PM

Hello - new guy from Washington State. I'm very green when it comes to anything other than S&W's, Colts or Sigs, so please pardon anything idiotic I might say about my newest firearm - a 1918 Erfurt Luger.

I am not one of those guys who has always wanted a Luger, but I was discussing firearms with a buddy and he asked me if I had a Luger. So the thought stuck in my head and when I saw one for a good price, I grabbed it. The first thing I tried to do was figure out how to break it down, and hit a wall almost immediately:

1) The toggle lock is not working. From what I'm reading on the internet, either the magazine spring is shot or the gun does not have a toggle lock. It has an after-market mag with a white bottom.

2) The take-down lever doesn't move. Is this related to the toggle lock issue?

Thanks in advance. I look forward to enjoying this Luger. If it's like most of my other ventures, I'll probably end up with more of these than I need.

G.T. · 02-26-2020, 08:21 PM

To start with, congrats on your new acquisition, you'll learn more with this Lugers than any that follow... But, to the problems at hand... remove the RH grip, you should be able to actuate the hold open while holding toggle back? It's tricky, but after a little effort you'll get it... Once the toggle is locked back / open, (only way it, the take down lever, can be moved!!!) you should be able to swing the take down lever down 90 degrees to allow removal of the side plate, and, also the receiver after pulling back all the way on the toggle, to let the hold open fall down and release... If you get that far, we will re-visit and discuss the next move, moves.... best to you, til...lat'r...GT...

runscott · 02-27-2020, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.T.

...you should be able to actuate the hold open while holding toggle back? It's tricky, but after a little effort you'll get it... Once the toggle is locked back / open, (only way it, the take down lever, can be moved!!!)

I don't know what you mean by "actuate the hold open" and when I google it, I just see instructions that say the same, without defining what "actuate the hold open" actually means.

update - if I use a screwdriver wrapped in cloth, I can get the take-down lever to go down. I'll just put it away and wait for the new magazine to arrive. If that doesn't solve the problem Ill punt. I apologize for bothering you all so much about this, and I appreciate all the information you have provided. If this one isn't workable, I'll certainly have a head-start with the next one. I've probably put about ten hours of work in on it since it arrived yesterday.

Doubs · 02-28-2020, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runscott

I don't know what you mean by "actuate the hold open" and when I google it, I just see instructions that say the same, without defining what "actuate the hold open" actually means.

With an empty magazine in the pistol, the follower button on the right side should push up against the hold open. When the action is pulled fully to the rear, the button pushes the hold open upward and prevents the action from closing; i.e., the breech block is caught by the hold open and is locked open Your magazine may have a weak spring and not work the hold open. A new MecGar mag should resolve that if it's truly a problem.

My father used to hold the action open with one hand and reach into the receiver with the other and pull the hold open into position to lock the action open. I saw him do that many times.

As HerrKaiser says, some take down levers are really difficult. A little oil on it might help.

runscott · 02-28-2020, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerrKaiser

Some advice, put some lubricating oil (I use remoil) on the sideplate area where the TD lever engages it. You may also check the inside of the frame and lube up the lever itself inside the frame to see if that helps at all.

Will do both when I break down and clean today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubs

With an empty magazine in the pistol, the follower button on the right side should push up against the hold open. When the action is pulled fully to the rear, the button pushes the hold open upward and prevents the action from closing; i.e., the breech block is caught by the hold open and is locked open Your magazine may have a weak spring and not work the hold open. A new MecGar mag should resolve that if it's truly a problem.

My father used to hold the action open with one hand and reach into the receiver with the other and pull the hold open into position to lock the action open. I saw him do that many times.

As HerrKaiser says, some take down levers are really difficult. A little oil on it might help.

I see what you are saying. The follower button doesn't move when I pull the action back. I'm not gutsy enough yet to put my fingers in there - I'll just wait for the new mec-gar and see if that fixes the issue. I don't have any other mags with follower buttons, so it's tough to judge the spring strength, but it seems a little weak to me.

Thanks all.

runscott · 02-28-2020, 03:59 PM

I don't see the post anymore, but someone had asked about the sideplate. Sadly, it is blank.

runscott · 02-26-2020, 08:41 PM

Thanks. I didn't try actuating the hold open, but I was able to push the barrel down and get the take down lever down. Then the side-plate fell off and I was able to remove the front of the gun. I decided to stop at that point.

I googled 'Erfurt Luger' 'mec-gar magazine' and found they make them. Will the 8-rd mags sold by Midway work with this gun? If so, I'll just buy one and see if that solves the toggle back problem.

gunnertwo · 02-26-2020, 09:25 PM

Here's a short video of the process to disassemble and reassemble the pistol.

Link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-RL98gXKTQ

I have a few slight issues with the terminology that isn't quite correct, the pistol has no "slide' it is a barrel with an extension. There are others but, I'll leave it for later.

Looks like a nice rig, the added plus is the holster and belt. If you get a chance post some pics of the holster and belt markings. Thanks for sharing your gun with us. You will probably want another.

G2

runscott · 02-27-2020, 12:53 PM

Thanks for that video link - it made the process extremely easy to understand.

Funny thing - once I broke it down and put it back together, the toggle lock works, and very smooth and easy. When it arrived it was very difficult to even pull the toggle up, and then it snapped right back down. I'm a bit confused by this.

Attached are the pictures you asked about.

mrerick · 02-27-2020, 02:18 PM

Congratulations on your new Luger.

You'll probably find a copy of our forum's FAQ document helpful. Just download it free by following the FAQ link at the top of the page.

The fact that you can't lift the toggle is likely related to the lock not operating.

The receiver has to be pulled back about a quarter inch before you can rotate the slide lock.

This jam up sometimes happens when the linkage between the recoil spring lever (inside the grips) and the toggle is not engaged properly.

Use extreme care when removing the grips. The left one, in particular, is easy to chip near the safety lever. The grip screws are also unique, with an unusual Whitworth British 55 degree thread.

Don't lift them far off the frame before sliding them down.

Before handling or working on this, ensure that there isn't a round in the chamber. The "loaded" indicator on the breech block will help, but consider probing it carefully to see if there is anything in there.

runscott · 02-27-2020, 02:33 PM

Thanks for your response. The first thing I did when I received it was pull up on the toggle and take a peek in the chamber. Then broke it down, pulled up the toggle and took a look through the barrel. Really wild to see all the differences between this design and anything else I've ever seen. Very creative minds at work here. Comparing this gun to the WWII versions (on the internet - I don't own one), they are amazingly similar. Like the old Smith & Wesson revolvers, and cheap wood mouse-traps, once they got things 'right', there weren't many changes made.

I think you are right that the toggle was not engaged properly. Once I followed the instructions in the video link posted by gunnertwo, everything worked great. Just now I broke it down again and had the initial issues repeated. Did it again and now it's fine.

Thanks for the grip recommendations. I got lucky on the first try and the grip panel fell off in my hand with no effort, but I'll certainly be careful to avoid chipping in the future.

Patrick Sweeney · 02-27-2020, 03:03 PM

Nice photos on the holster markings. Now do the same for the serial number, proof marks and toggle markings, so those who maintain databases can add yours to the lists.

runscott · 02-27-2020, 03:39 PM

Here you go:

Doubs · 02-27-2020, 03:40 PM

Nice rig and you did very well... especially with the holster and belt/buckle.

WRT the magazine. Yours has seen better days. MecGar makes a very nice mag and I own several. They're all I use when I shoot my Lugers.

gunnertwo · 02-27-2020, 04:03 PM

Scott,

You can post a WTB for an Erfurt mag on this forum. Someone will help find one for you. Again, nice rig, I'd be happy to have that also. The holster, belt and buckle all add to the history.

G2

runscott · 02-27-2020, 04:19 PM

I would like to clean it prior to shooting. I know there has to be a reference thread, but I'm not finding it.

Other than the bore, is it just a matter of Hoppes and a brush pretty much everywhere but the grips and grease on the slide?

gunnertwo · 02-27-2020, 04:42 PM

There are many here that would say don't shoot your pistol. Some do. If you decide to, use caution on what ammo you select. Stay away from surplus or unknown or repackaged ammo. Some ammo is specified for machine guns and is high pressure. I have used name brand Win, Fed, Speer ball ammo. Defensive ammo (hollow point) should be avoided as it may not feed and is higher pressure. Stick to ball and you should be OK.

Regarding cleaning, I field strip the gun to it components, carefully remove the grip plates and give everything a good scrubbing with Hoppe's No 9. Even the grips using caution. The gun probably hasn't been cleaned in years. I use a brass bore brush and wipe with a worn bore brush wrapped with a piece of cotton. My old cotton t-shirts make great rags and I cut parts off for bore patches. I wear disposable gloves and use a trash can with liner sticking the parts inside while scrubbing with old tooth brushes. I also do it on my back patio, saves on the smell and makes the wifey happy. This may be more than you wanted to know but that's my procedure.

G2

runscott · 02-27-2020, 06:24 PM

Thanks. I just broke it down more thoroughly - everything that did not require a punch tool - and the parts are in great shape with no rust or damage that I could spot. It looks like someone cleaned it properly a while back. There are a few points that are tighter than they should be, such as the safety/sear block and take down lever. Also some bare metal contact where the toggle hits the frame on each side.

I've gone through three different results when breaking it down and putting it back together. At this point the toggle goes back to ****, but does not go all the way back to the lock point. This is the same whether or not it has a magazine in. The safety works, as I can't **** it when the safety is flipped. So I've got that going for me.

Doubs · 02-27-2020, 08:07 PM

When installing the toggle train back into the receiver, you'll note that it only goes so far as the sear engages the firing pin. Use your thumb to press inward on the front of the sear bar so that the sear is moved out of the way of the firing pin. The toggle train will them continue into battery and the axle pin can be inserted through the receiver and rear toggle section.

runscott · 02-27-2020, 11:07 PM

I've spent hours on this gun and I think I've finally run out of energy. I broke it down again, put it back together, and now the take down lever won't budge. I push down on the barrel...nothing.

Kind of worn out at this point and there is nothing on the internet that is helping. I've read "put an empty cartridge in, then...". And I've read "take the cartridge out, then...". Doesn't matter what I try, it's frozen.

02-26-2020, 08:08 PM	#1
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 12 Posts	New Guy with 1918 Erfurt Luger Hello - new guy from Washington State. I'm very green when it comes to anything other than S&W's, Colts or Sigs, so please pardon anything idiotic I might say about my newest firearm - a 1918 Erfurt Luger. I am not one of those guys who has always wanted a Luger, but I was discussing firearms with a buddy and he asked me if I had a Luger. So the thought stuck in my head and when I saw one for a good price, I grabbed it. The first thing I tried to do was figure out how to break it down, and hit a wall almost immediately: 1) The toggle lock is not working. From what I'm reading on the internet, either the magazine spring is shot or the gun does not have a toggle lock. It has an after-market mag with a white bottom. 2) The take-down lever doesn't move. Is this related to the toggle lock issue? Thanks in advance. I look forward to enjoying this Luger. If it's like most of my other ventures, I'll probably end up with more of these than I need. Attached Thumbnails

02-26-2020, 08:21 PM	#2
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	looks nice! To start with, congrats on your new acquisition, you'll learn more with this Lugers than any that follow... But, to the problems at hand... remove the RH grip, you should be able to actuate the hold open while holding toggle back? It's tricky, but after a little effort you'll get it... Once the toggle is locked back / open, (only way it, the take down lever, can be moved!!!) you should be able to swing the take down lever down 90 degrees to allow removal of the side plate, and, also the receiver after pulling back all the way on the toggle, to let the hold open fall down and release... If you get that far, we will re-visit and discuss the next move, moves.... best to you, til...lat'r...GT...

02-27-2020, 12:53 PM	#9
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 12 Posts	Thanks for that video link - it made the process extremely easy to understand. Funny thing - once I broke it down and put it back together, the toggle lock works, and very smooth and easy. When it arrived it was very difficult to even pull the toggle up, and then it snapped right back down. I'm a bit confused by this. Attached are the pictures you asked about. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by runscott; 02-27-2020 at 02:05 PM.

02-27-2020, 02:18 PM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Congratulations on your new Luger. You'll probably find a copy of our forum's FAQ document helpful. Just download it free by following the FAQ link at the top of the page. The fact that you can't lift the toggle is likely related to the lock not operating. The receiver has to be pulled back about a quarter inch before you can rotate the slide lock. This jam up sometimes happens when the linkage between the recoil spring lever (inside the grips) and the toggle is not engaged properly. Use extreme care when removing the grips. The left one, in particular, is easy to chip near the safety lever. The grip screws are also unique, with an unusual Whitworth British 55 degree thread. Don't lift them far off the frame before sliding them down. Before handling or working on this, ensure that there isn't a round in the chamber. The "loaded" indicator on the breech block will help, but consider probing it carefully to see if there is anything in there. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-27-2020, 03:39 PM	#13
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 12 Posts	Here you go: Attached Thumbnails

02-28-2020, 03:59 PM	#6
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 12 Posts	I don't see the post anymore, but someone had asked about the sideplate. Sadly, it is blank.

02-26-2020, 08:41 PM	#7
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 12 Posts	Thanks. I didn't try actuating the hold open, but I was able to push the barrel down and get the take down lever down. Then the side-plate fell off and I was able to remove the front of the gun. I decided to stop at that point. I googled 'Erfurt Luger' 'mec-gar magazine' and found they make them. Will the 8-rd mags sold by Midway work with this gun? If so, I'll just buy one and see if that solves the toggle back problem.

02-26-2020, 09:25 PM	#8
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	Here's a short video of the process to disassemble and reassemble the pistol. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-RL98gXKTQ I have a few slight issues with the terminology that isn't quite correct, the pistol has no "slide' it is a barrel with an extension. There are others but, I'll leave it for later. Looks like a nice rig, the added plus is the holster and belt. If you get a chance post some pics of the holster and belt markings. Thanks for sharing your gun with us. You will probably want another. G2

02-27-2020, 02:33 PM	#11
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 12 Posts	Thanks for your response. The first thing I did when I received it was pull up on the toggle and take a peek in the chamber. Then broke it down, pulled up the toggle and took a look through the barrel. Really wild to see all the differences between this design and anything else I've ever seen. Very creative minds at work here. Comparing this gun to the WWII versions (on the internet - I don't own one), they are amazingly similar. Like the old Smith & Wesson revolvers, and cheap wood mouse-traps, once they got things 'right', there weren't many changes made. I think you are right that the toggle was not engaged properly. Once I followed the instructions in the video link posted by gunnertwo, everything worked great. Just now I broke it down again and had the initial issues repeated. Did it again and now it's fine. Thanks for the grip recommendations. I got lucky on the first try and the grip panel fell off in my hand with no effort, but I'll certainly be careful to avoid chipping in the future.

02-27-2020, 03:03 PM	#12
Patrick Sweeney User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 50 Times in 25 Posts	Nice photos on the holster markings. Now do the same for the serial number, proof marks and toggle markings, so those who maintain databases can add yours to the lists.

02-27-2020, 03:40 PM	#14
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	Nice rig and you did very well... especially with the holster and belt/buckle. WRT the magazine. Yours has seen better days. MecGar makes a very nice mag and I own several. They're all I use when I shoot my Lugers.

02-27-2020, 04:03 PM	#15
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	Scott, You can post a WTB for an Erfurt mag on this forum. Someone will help find one for you. Again, nice rig, I'd be happy to have that also. The holster, belt and buckle all add to the history. G2

02-27-2020, 04:19 PM	#16
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 12 Posts	I would like to clean it prior to shooting. I know there has to be a reference thread, but I'm not finding it. Other than the bore, is it just a matter of Hoppes and a brush pretty much everywhere but the grips and grease on the slide?

02-27-2020, 04:42 PM	#17
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	There are many here that would say don't shoot your pistol. Some do. If you decide to, use caution on what ammo you select. Stay away from surplus or unknown or repackaged ammo. Some ammo is specified for machine guns and is high pressure. I have used name brand Win, Fed, Speer ball ammo. Defensive ammo (hollow point) should be avoided as it may not feed and is higher pressure. Stick to ball and you should be OK. Regarding cleaning, I field strip the gun to it components, carefully remove the grip plates and give everything a good scrubbing with Hoppe's No 9. Even the grips using caution. The gun probably hasn't been cleaned in years. I use a brass bore brush and wipe with a worn bore brush wrapped with a piece of cotton. My old cotton t-shirts make great rags and I cut parts off for bore patches. I wear disposable gloves and use a trash can with liner sticking the parts inside while scrubbing with old tooth brushes. I also do it on my back patio, saves on the smell and makes the wifey happy. This may be more than you wanted to know but that's my procedure. G2

02-27-2020, 06:24 PM	#18
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 12 Posts	Thanks. I just broke it down more thoroughly - everything that did not require a punch tool - and the parts are in great shape with no rust or damage that I could spot. It looks like someone cleaned it properly a while back. There are a few points that are tighter than they should be, such as the safety/sear block and take down lever. Also some bare metal contact where the toggle hits the frame on each side. I've gone through three different results when breaking it down and putting it back together. At this point the toggle goes back to **, but does not go all the way back to the lock point. This is the same whether or not it has a magazine in. The safety works, as I can't ** it when the safety is flipped. So I've got that going for me.

02-27-2020, 08:07 PM	#19
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	When installing the toggle train back into the receiver, you'll note that it only goes so far as the sear engages the firing pin. Use your thumb to press inward on the front of the sear bar so that the sear is moved out of the way of the firing pin. The toggle train will them continue into battery and the axle pin can be inserted through the receiver and rear toggle section.

02-27-2020, 11:07 PM	#20
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 12 Posts	I've spent hours on this gun and I think I've finally run out of energy. I broke it down again, put it back together, and now the take down lever won't budge. I push down on the barrel...nothing. Kind of worn out at this point and there is nothing on the internet that is helping. I've read "put an empty cartridge in, then...". And I've read "take the cartridge out, then...". Doesn't matter what I try, it's frozen.