Help Identifying a "Blank: Luger?

DutchLuger · 10-11-2024, 06:03 PM

I collect Dutch Lugers and recently picked one up that I thought was Dutch based on the presence of a brass side plate. On closer inspection, I see no "RUST" marked safety, no "GELADEN" on the extractor, no acceptance marks, not even a manufacturer's identification. The style of the brass plate, the lettering font, and the letters themselves also don't appear to reflect Dutch usage. The only markings are a serial no 5 that appears in quite a few places. Does anyone have any thoughts on what this pistol might be all about?

Mac Cat · 10-11-2024, 06:21 PM

Can we see the left side, too?
Sideplate and sear.
Are there any other numbered parts ? (inside ?)

Very curious P.08, I think, but I need to see more details.

aldo35 · 10-11-2024, 09:05 PM

Maybe a lunch box special

gunnertwo · 10-11-2024, 09:16 PM

The brass unit plate looks nothing like other examples I've observed. Pretty sure it's been renumbered. The "5" on the rear of the toggle and upper frame looks new.

G2

Mac Cat · 10-11-2024, 10:30 PM

Ghost gun - post WW-1 ??

DutchLuger · 10-11-2024, 10:58 PM

Thanks, gents. I know this thing looks pretty suss, but I wonder where one would find all these unnumbered parts, and how much effort someone would go to to make a fake Dutch(?) Luger? I hate to admit that I don't even know what a sear is, but I will take some more photos of the internals in a day or two. I do know that the grips (which are tight as can be) are stamped with the number 5 on the inside surface as well.

Dwight Gruber · 10-17-2024, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchLuger

...and how much effort someone would go to to make a fake Dutch(?) Luger?...

The only "effort" anyone has gone to here to make a fake Dutch Luger is to create and affix the brass unit plate. Not really difficult at all.

--Dwight

DutchLuger · 10-11-2024, 11:01 PM

There's a 5 on the underside of the barrel, but no other proof markings. No date on the frame.

DutchLuger · 10-11-2024, 11:02 PM

Here's the top of the barrel.

DutchLuger · 10-11-2024, 11:03 PM

Or maybe here. I'm pretty new to this.

wlyon · 10-12-2024, 01:19 AM

I agree with Gunnertwo. I have never seen a Dutch plate like that one. Way to big. Bill

DutchLuger · 10-12-2024, 09:47 PM

Let me start by saying thank you to those who took the time to take a look at the earlier posting. I am a first time user of this forum and was amazed to see that people were so willing to look at this random pistol and give me their thoughts. I very much appreciate it.

I have no idea if this will help, but I did some disassembly and photographed a few internal details. The frame has significant corrosion pitting and seems out of step with the near flawless finish of most of the remaining parts. I am just baffled that someone might go to the trouble of creating a low serial number knockoff without trying for a more high value version.

The only aberrant numbers I see are on the housing for the firing pin (maybe a 68?). There are some random letters low on the magazine housing portion of the frame, and some symbols on the underside of the frame near the barrel.

Thank you all again for your input.

DutchLuger · 10-12-2024, 09:50 PM

Add-On Photo Set 1

DutchLuger · 10-12-2024, 09:52 PM

Add-On Photo Set 2.

DutchLuger · 10-12-2024, 09:53 PM

And just a couple more.

Mac Cat · 10-13-2024, 02:16 PM

Nice close-ups!
I'm impressed with how many of the parts are numbered.
Matching numbered grips !!! Wow, that is cool.

That detail tends to rule out a "ghost gun" or factory sneak.
But it's purpose is still unclear to me.

I don't think anyone was trying to fake a Dutch luger, either.

DutchLuger · 10-13-2024, 11:51 PM

Yeah, the only thing I've found with an off number is the firing pin. It has a 68 stamp. Kind of odd that it was replaced since the gun barely appears to have been fired. Just one more mystery as to what the purpose of this particular build was.

ithacaartist · 10-15-2024, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchLuger

...the gun barely appears to have been fired.

It has been reblued over pits, so who really knows? It's a pretty good job, too, that didn't involve buffing the bejeepers out of it.

The font style is what I'd expect to see on a Mauser Luger. There is something weird going on with how the front of the barrel extension is proud of the frame: https://forum.lugerforum.com/attachm...1&d=1728680584 Frankenluger?

velodog455~ · 10-14-2024, 09:16 AM

A couple of curiosity questions...

On a genuine Dutch Luger, how is the brass plate affixed to the side of the pistol? Glue? Solder?

And, although the brass plate on this one is too big, was the same attachment method used as seen on a Dutch Luger?

Ron Wood · 10-14-2024, 02:08 PM

On an original Dutch it is solder. On this gun who knows?..maybe super glue?

10-11-2024, 06:03 PM	#1
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Help Identifying a "Blank: Luger? I collect Dutch Lugers and recently picked one up that I thought was Dutch based on the presence of a brass side plate. On closer inspection, I see no "RUST" marked safety, no "GELADEN" on the extractor, no acceptance marks, not even a manufacturer's identification. The style of the brass plate, the lettering font, and the letters themselves also don't appear to reflect Dutch usage. The only markings are a serial no 5 that appears in quite a few places. Does anyone have any thoughts on what this pistol might be all about? Attached Thumbnails

10-11-2024, 11:03 PM	#10
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Or maybe here. I'm pretty new to this. Attached Thumbnails

10-12-2024, 01:19 AM	#11
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	I agree with Gunnertwo. I have never seen a Dutch plate like that one. Way to big. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

10-12-2024, 09:47 PM	#12
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Additional Images Let me start by saying thank you to those who took the time to take a look at the earlier posting. I am a first time user of this forum and was amazed to see that people were so willing to look at this random pistol and give me their thoughts. I very much appreciate it. I have no idea if this will help, but I did some disassembly and photographed a few internal details. The frame has significant corrosion pitting and seems out of step with the near flawless finish of most of the remaining parts. I am just baffled that someone might go to the trouble of creating a low serial number knockoff without trying for a more high value version. The only aberrant numbers I see are on the housing for the firing pin (maybe a 68?). There are some random letters low on the magazine housing portion of the frame, and some symbols on the underside of the frame near the barrel. Thank you all again for your input. Attached Thumbnails

10-12-2024, 09:50 PM	#13
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Add-On Photo Set 1 Attached Thumbnails

10-11-2024, 06:21 PM	#2
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 732 Thanks: 2,100 Thanked 610 Times in 329 Posts	Can we see the left side, too? Sideplate and sear. Are there any other numbered parts ? (inside ?) Very curious P.08, I think, but I need to see more details.

10-11-2024, 09:05 PM	#3
aldo35 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Northern GA Posts: 343 Thanks: 2,229 Thanked 146 Times in 76 Posts	Maybe a lunch box special

10-11-2024, 09:16 PM	#4
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	The brass unit plate looks nothing like other examples I've observed. Pretty sure it's been renumbered. The "5" on the rear of the toggle and upper frame looks new. G2

10-11-2024, 10:30 PM	#5
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 732 Thanks: 2,100 Thanked 610 Times in 329 Posts	Ghost gun - post WW-1 ??

10-11-2024, 10:58 PM	#6
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks, gents. I know this thing looks pretty suss, but I wonder where one would find all these unnumbered parts, and how much effort someone would go to to make a fake Dutch(?) Luger? I hate to admit that I don't even know what a sear is, but I will take some more photos of the internals in a day or two. I do know that the grips (which are tight as can be) are stamped with the number 5 on the inside surface as well.

10-11-2024, 11:01 PM	#8
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	There's a 5 on the underside of the barrel, but no other proof markings. No date on the frame.

10-11-2024, 11:02 PM	#9
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Here's the top of the barrel.

10-12-2024, 09:52 PM	#14
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Add-On Photo Set 2. Attached Thumbnails

10-12-2024, 09:53 PM	#15
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	And just a couple more. Attached Thumbnails

10-13-2024, 02:16 PM	#16
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 732 Thanks: 2,100 Thanked 610 Times in 329 Posts	Nice close-ups! I'm impressed with how many of the parts are numbered. Matching numbered grips !!! Wow, that is cool. That detail tends to rule out a "ghost gun" or factory sneak. But it's purpose is still unclear to me. I don't think anyone was trying to fake a Dutch luger, either.

10-13-2024, 11:51 PM	#17
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Yeah, the only thing I've found with an off number is the firing pin. It has a 68 stamp. Kind of odd that it was replaced since the gun barely appears to have been fired. Just one more mystery as to what the purpose of this particular build was.

10-14-2024, 09:16 AM	#19
velodog455~ User Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 76 Thanks: 18 Thanked 58 Times in 35 Posts	A couple of curiosity questions... On a genuine Dutch Luger, how is the brass plate affixed to the side of the pistol? Glue? Solder? And, although the brass plate on this one is too big, was the same attachment method used as seen on a Dutch Luger?

10-14-2024, 02:08 PM	#20
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	On an original Dutch it is solder. On this gun who knows?..maybe super glue? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction