'42 Mauser Banner Eagle L Police pics... plz?

[stymie]

I tried the gallery archives. Does anyone have any high resolution pics of this Luger from different angles... that they could post? Thanks!!

[kidvett]

Hello,

No luck in the archives?

I do have a Banner Police Eagle L dated 42. I should be able to post some PICS this week end as I have some work to do on the scanner.....

Till then <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

kidvett

[kidvett]

Hi Stymie,

BAD NEWS My scanner is broken! I try to find another option for those BANNER PICS...

kidvett

[Leon DeSpain]

Hello Stymie,

I have uploaded pictures of my 1942 E/L Mauser Banner police P.08 to my web site. Following is the link to it if you would like to take a look. I hope this answers your questions. If not, let me know what you need to see and I will try to arrange it.

http://lmd-militaria.com/page140.html

Regards, Leon

[Edward Tinker]

That is a nice Police gun Leon

And always interesting hearing how it was obtained. If you want to share the story of it... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[John Sabato]

Hey Leon,

Nice gun and nice photos... I would ask that you create a Member Gallery Album and place the original photos there as an example of this model for Lugerforum posterity... You can use high resolution because the Member Gallery will accept them and then creates its own thumbnails and quickviews but the original high quality photo is available if anyone wants it...

Need Help? Let me know.

[stymie]

Hi Leon,
I really appreciate your taking the time to share those photos. I had acquired a mint '42 E/L Mauser Banner police rig a couple of years ago... serial #y3110. The bore looks like it just came off the assembly line. All numbers match. The wooden grip panels exhibit sharp checkering, but are somewhat dark compared to yours. It came w/ two FXO mags, but they seem to have black bakelite bottoms & are not numbered. The holster is perfect, but the stitching is black. Was it common to dye the cotton? Any idea as to what this rig might be worth? I'm planning on getting a Sony Mavica MVP 4 megapixel digital cam soon & will post photos at that time.
Thanks again,
stymie

[Leon DeSpain]

Hi Stymie,

Is your holster a police holster? You can usually identify them by the closure strap being stitched to the body of the holster and attaching to a stud mounted in the flap. In other words the strap attaches upward and to a stud rather than downward with a belt and buckle arrangement, like the military holsters.

Grips did vary in color so darker grips than mine would not surprise me, at all.

Your mags are regular military mags since they are marked fxo, a military secret code.

Black stitching was not uncommon, especially on police holsters. Just make sure that if the outside thread is black, the thread on the inside is black also. If the outside thread is black and the inside thread is white, that is an indication that the holster has been polished or dyed.

I would value your gun, in excellent ++ condition at $1800 to $2000. An excellent ++ police holster will be worth $400 to $450. If it is military, $300 to $350.

The mags, although not correct for your gun, are worth $125 to $150 each in excellent ++ condition.

These prices are what I have seen recently, based on your descriptions and assuming total originality of all items but may not be exactly correct depending on what show you go to and/or where you live.

If you want to buy a Sony camera, I would look into the Cyber Shot. I think the Mavica uses a floppy disk to store the pictures. The Cyber Shot uses a memory stick and you can store a lot of pictures on one of the larger capacity sticks. Also, you can plug the camera into the USB port on your computer, assuming you have a newer PC, and download the pictures to your hard drive pretty fast. The Cyber Shot is also smaller.

Email me if you want more details about the camera. I have a Cyber Shot and have been VERY happy with it.

Regards, Leon

[stymie]

Hi Leon,
I have the black military holster w/ the strap/buckle & lifting strap as well. It appears that the stitching is original black cotton thread. The back of the holster is marked: P.08, bmd/41 & an eagle/swastika/WaA640. The leather & stitching are perfect. The pistol has only the slightest wear on the side plate & muzzle crown. This Luger must have only been rarely fired. I couldn't resist taking it to the range to see just what it's like to pull the trigger on such an elegant piece of machinery. The trigger pull is very light & extremely crisp. It points quite naturally & the recoil is mild. I bought a post war Mauser Parabellum P.08 framed Luger to use as a shooter.

I was considering that particular Sony Mavica because it uses a CD that goes straight from the camera to the pc tower & you're in business. (I'm computer challenged... really!) I'll look into the Cyber Shot.
Best,
stymie

[Leon DeSpain]

Stymie,

I can understand your desire to fire your gun. It's yours to do with as you please. Just keep in mind that if one major serial numbered part were to break, you would have a police Luger shooter instead of a police Luger collectible with a very, very large reduction in value.

If the CD on the Mavica will hold 700MB, like a standard CD then that would be attractive. I suspect the memory stick would still record and download faster. It's something to look into. I have had no experience with the CD version of the camera. I still like the smaller version of the camera with the memory stick.

Regards, Leon

[Dwight Gruber]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Leon DeSpain:
<strong>...if one major serial numbered part were to break, you would have a police Luger shooter instead of a police Luger collectible with a very, very large reduction in value....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Stymie,

If -any- serial-numbered part breaks your Luger will have lost most of its collector value. A word to the wise.

--Dwight

[stymie]

Understood! I've put 2 magazines through it, cleaned it thoroughly, EEZOX'd the firing mechanism & applied a dab of white lithium grease to the rails before retiring it to the safe. I still take it out from time to time... to fondle it... of course! Thanks for all the responses.

[Leon DeSpain]

Dwight,

You are basically correct but I have found that a minor mismatched part does not have a major effect on the value. Nothing like a mismatched frame, barrel, toggle, etc. That is the point I was trying to make. Maybe your experience has been different. Mismatched parts like the firing pin or toggle pin don't drag the value down like major parts. Mismatched small parts that are not easily visible, especially until the gun is disassembled, seem to have less impact. I was talking about major part mismatch = major reduction in value. I would still consider a Luger with a mismatched firing pin, a collectible Luger. It's not one I would prefer, however. A Luger with a mismatched barrel is a shooter. My opinion, only, and based on what I have observed.

Of course, any mismatched part will have a negative effect on value. How much, I suppose, depends on the buyer.

Best Regards, Leon

[Edward Tinker]

This is always an interesting discussion. To many purists, any numbered part replaced is automatic shooter status.

That is not how I believe, I agree with Leon, major parts yes, other parts such as normal field replacement by a soldiers unit, no.

Controversial, yes.

It is interesting, just this last week I had this same conversation with a very well known and respected gentleman that stated the same thing, that a firing pin replacement did not make it a shooter to him.

[Dwight Gruber]

Let me up the ante a little bit, stand on one of my pet soapboxes, explain the thinking behind my words (and see if I can mix any more metaphores in the process...)

I've always hated the distinction--and the terminology--of "collector" Luger and "shooter" Luger. There are only Lugers, the people who own them, and what they do with them.

I perhaps overstated to make the very real point about shooting a Luger with high value to a high-level collector. To many, its true, a small--"minor"--mismatched part will not seriously reduce its desirability. It has as much to do with the particular Luger--a garden-variety Imperial P-08 in pristine condition will likely be devalued more by a mismatched part than, say, a hard-used, oft-repaired Vickers.

And no, a replaced firing pin does not a shooter make, but neither is it any longer "all matching".

A much more useful differentiation would be: a Luger whose value may be compromised by the exigencies of shooting, contrasted with a Luger which can be shot with the confidence that its value will be affected very little.

Just my .02.

--Dwight (soapbox mode now off)

[Edward Tinker]

True Dwight... <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" />

So, I will start below the box!

Anyway, I will use a pet peeve of mine at the end, Anyway, I agree with your point, and feel that a true matching is more valuable and in reality there should be a distinction, replaced barrel, $200 - $500 off, firing pin $50, grips not matching (first matching grips I've had that were marked from Tom H's gun he sold me $50 to $75), breachblock / toggle at least $200 - $400, etc. The worse the part being "wrong" the higher the value taken off?

Now, here is my pet peeve. Why are East German, which is an actual German Arsenal, considered shooters? Someone have a nice matching sweet East German for me as an example? {{and I expect a "shooter" price? }}

[Leon DeSpain]

To Edward Tinker and others with interest;

I basically transcribed the letter that I received from the vet detailing the capture of the E/L P.08. I have uploaded it to my web site. Click on the link, below, and then click on "Capture Story".

http://lmd-militaria.com/page140.html

Regards, Leon

[ToggleTop]

Leon,
I enjoyed viewing the images of your beautiful Mauser very much. It is truly a gorgeous pistol with great historical value. The capture story was great. Thank you for taking so much time to provide the excellent post which you do!

[Frank]

Leon, thanks for the photos and the great story. You got a lucky one!! Wish it was mine!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Leon DeSpain]

Frank and ToggleTop,

Thanks for the nice comments. It does take time to do this stuff but I enjoy sharing it with folks that are appreciative of my efforts.

There is more to the story and that is how I got the gun.

There was an ad in Shotgun News about 7+ years ago detailing the gun with a "matching" 1943 holster. I initially passed off the ad as something a little flakey. By late afternoon that day I decided, what the heck, it's only a few bucks for a phone call. I figured the gun would be gone, anyway. I called and Mr. Stamell told me I was the first to call. I was amazed.
He had taken the gun to a "gun shop expert" who did not tell him that it was a police gun, which I did.

I later found out that Mr. Stamell was a Russian Jew. I used to do some business (buying motorcycles) with an ex Auschwitz concentration camp prisoner with the numbers on his arm and he had written a book about his experiences. I told Mr. Stamell about the book and he seemed very interested. Mr. Stamell was nice enough to write the letter, which was an after thought on my part and not part of the original deal, so I went to the guy that wrote the book, bought a copy, had him autograph it to Mr. Stamell and shipped it to him. He was thrilled.

Regards, Leon