Pebble Grain Artillery Boot

[Edward Tinker]

From Jerry Burney!

The Leather and encouragement was compliments of George Anderson,
Jerry
lugerholsterrepair
------------------------------
George,
Thought you would like to see what the prototype looks like attached to the Stock and completed!
Thank you for the leather, worked out very well, even has a few of the original needle holes in it.
Jerry
FRONT:

BACK:

Bottom:

[Ron Smith]

Jerry, Keep trying. You'll get pretty good at that in a few years. Just takes alittle practice.
Ron

[lugerholsterrepair]

Ron, I have to admit, this little rig took the better part of two days to manufacture.

Each and every little part is painstakingly made, measured, fitted and put together with the utmost care.

The brass metal parts are all handmade, the tiney brass rivets are hacked out of raw metal round stock with a hacksaw and a file and hand hammered on. Since the brass is extremely shiney when it's made I found a magic way to form an instant patina. Makes it look authentic and if this piece isn't mistaken for an original a few years hence I will eat your hat.

I get a real thrill out of practising this craft.

I better quit goofing off and get to work on your holsters....Jerry Burney

[Ron Smith]

Jerry, Exquisite work, as usual!
(Just thought I should do alittle sucking up, since you'er working on MY holsters. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )
All kidding aside. You are the master.

Ron

[lugerholsterrepair]

Well, Thanks! I think it's like George Anderson told me, there are only six guys on the planet who give a crap about how an Artillery boot is made, what it's made of or any of the finer details. I am beginning to think he is a man of rare genius. Two thousand three hundred some odd members on this Forum and only one comment from a great guy trying to suck up! There's some suck going on but it's not you Ron!

Ed, I appreciate you posting these photo's for me. Thanks!

Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

They're all shy Jerry!

Nice, It'd be cool to have a full one like that wouldn't it? Too much work tho Jerry!!!



Ed

[Ron Wood]

Sorry I didn't speak up about the level of craftsmanship required to turn out this quality of work sooner Jerry, so I guess I will have to be lumped in with the two thousand three hundred some odd members that suck. My apologies, for I DO appreciate the fine points that go into your authentic achievement of the nearly lost art of saddlery.

[John Sabato]

&lt;SUCK UP MODE ON&gt;

My turn... Jerry's work is second to none... and I am glad that he is one of the GOOD GUYS... a guy with his talents that had no scruples could easily be turning out boosted leather.

I am very thankful he is a man of integrity, who takes pleasure in his remarkable craftsmanship, and cares about the preservation of historical artifacts.

&lt;SUCK UP MODE OFF&gt;

[lugerholsterrepair]

Hey guys! I was not fishing for compliments....I know I'm good at what I do and have the self confidence to not worry about people saying nice things. Thank you for doing so but you have misinterpreted my sucking sounds.

I thought out of all those Members we have that we might continue the conversation in the Artillery section that stopped so abruptly due to religious dissention. I know there are some very knowlegable members out there who know the answers but they remain silent.

I asked a couple of questions there in the Artillery thread of pertinant interest to those 6 people George knows. I was hoping the Membership would embrace this interesting research. Sadly there appears to be little interest.
Those questions were:
What is the lining of the Artillery boot made of , was it stitched in with the leather, and what color is it?

As you can see from Ed's gracious posting of my photo's, I have mastered the boot itself. This is not in an effort to decieve....But to complete and restore. Were I trying to fool anyone I would be exceedinly foolish to display it for all to see...

I make these things to exacting specifications to match original German pieces. This one shown is a prototype piece to see if it would match a 1915 Mars pebble grained Artillery.

With the help of George Anderson, his extensive collection and vast knowledge of the subject I hope to complete a boot to Original 1915 German specifications that would match an original holster.

I suspect the lack of interest in this subject could stem either from it's rarity or the evil aura of boosting. Not many Members posses a 1915 Mars pebble grained Artillery. As far as boosting goes...I boosteth not. This is meant as a restoration piece, nothing more. Will it be taken for an original years from now? I think so....I actually even Hope so. If it is, it will have been made well enough to pass the test and that makes my heart glad. Anyone who takes the time to study antique German leather items can see this was made recently. Someday I will point out a few salient factors that I use.

Please Ron,Ron, John, Ed...I only think the best of you guys....Thanks for the support. Jerry Burney

[Ron Smith]

Jerry, As far as boosting goes. If 20 years from now, someone can't tell the difference from an original. What difference will it make? The only time it would make a difference, is if someone DOES know the difference, and tries to pass it off as original. In others words, if ya can't tell don't worry about it!! It's all relative.
There's a guy here in Oregon. Who is a Master Gunsmith and machinist. He specializes in restoring Winchesters and Colts. If you ever go to the Cody Museum. You will see some of his work. Purchased by the curator, as originals. The only people who know they are'nt,are the guy who did the work, and the seller.

Ron

[Ron Wood]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> What is the lining of the Artillery boot made of , was it stitched in with the leather, and what color is it? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I have more than passing curiosity about these questions too. Does anybody out there have an original boot with an intact or partial lining?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Ron, George Anderson is doing for me what you once did with your Dutch KNIL holster.Thanks again for your gracious and generous unsolicited gesture!
I hope to receive an original boot with it's lining intact. If I can determine anything from this I will let the six of us know.....Hopefully I can determine the answers to these questions from observation of an original boot.
The main question I may not be able to arrive at conclusively is the origin of material used for the lining and even if I can, where would one come by it in the right color? I guess nothing is impossible but....We will see. Jerry Burney

[George Anderson]

Jerry, in my collection I have found several boots that still have the lining, I will send you about four. I am certain that original color was red and Ed described the material as "parchment".

At this point I can't get his folks to release his original research to me but I will keep trying.

[lugerholsterrepair]

George, Thanks! I will see what I can see. I do appreciate your help. It will be interesting to say the least. Jerry Burney

[lugerholsterrepair]

I am posting on this subject for the six guys who give a hoot...I examined a half dozen original boots George Anderson sent and the photo Fritz posted and have come to the conclusion the lining of the Artillery boot was rawhide. Dyed a red color and appears to have been installed wet. Why this is so will be lost to time.
My thanks to George for his invaluble help without which this might have remained a mystery.
Jerry Burney

[Ron Smith]

Jerry, Could it be that they used rawhide because it does'nt stretch as much as tanned leather? And is much stiffer? Cured leather also stretches and sags when wet. Where raw hide will shrink when it dries. Retaining it's ridgidity and shape. Just a thought.
Ron

[lugerholsterrepair]

Ron, You seem to be correct on all counts...Supposition I suppose. Would like to know for SURE why. Not that these are not good reasons because they are...I need to find some fresh rawhide for experimentation..Jerry Burney

[Navy]

Gents,

Actually, the lining was done with what we would call "Gut", a very thin lining of leather that was incompletely cured (Is that the right term Jerry?) and I have seen them with both red and blue accents. It is my understanding that the less than completely cured leather was used to ensure a complete/compatible fit.

I have a couple of originals FS/FT if anyone needs one.

Tom A.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Tom, You could be completely correct...I really have no way of knowing except that I have examined these original boots and it is something along that line. It does not appear to be very thin however. It seems at least as thick as the leather of the outside of the boot if not thicker in places. I would say one tenth of an inch in most cases. Formed by pushing it into the boot with a form, like a wooden dowel formed to the oval shape. Then sewn around the top edge. I noticed most had some compression slits cut in the front and side. Quite the strange way to make these things. I would sure like to know why this material was employed.
Ron Smith ventured a supposition or two...Seems like there would be an easier way....

Tom, you don't happen to have a Nazi Police buckle you want to sell?
Jerry Burney

[Ron Wood]

Jerry,
The thread on Jan Stills forum by Friedrich M�¼ller "Fritz" on his absolutely mint arty rig seems to support your assessment of the lining being rawhide or at least having the appearance of rawhide. It has that glossy look of dried rawhide. Kind of reminds me of the rawhide on indian artifacts like warclub wrappings or drum heads. Didn't notice any red or blue coloration on Fritz's example though. Could be just the lighting.
I would venture a guess that if it is rawhide, that material was selected for its hardness as Ron Smith suggested, and the fact that it "wears like a pigs nose"...very durable once it has dried. It would stand up well to the constant abrasion of the stock iron and lever. Perhaps that is why you don't see too many boots that are worn through.