Estate auction review

[DavidJayUden]

Gents;
I attended an estate auciton in Fremont, NE, today. I'd viewed the items of interest yesterday and wrote down my max bids and stuck to them.
There was a 1917 DWM artillery, matching except mag, nice shape but with extensive pitting around the muzzle end of the barrel and chipped grip. It sold for around $2300.
Nice 41 BYF, excellent condition with matching mag. I figured $1250, and it sold for $1400. I probably should have dug a bit deeper on that one.
Mismatched BYF 40 or 41 with forcematched sideplate and also a mismatched refinished .30 commercial. They both brought a bit over $600 each. There were several repop. unmarked artillery stocks, I'd figured $40 but both brought over $200 each (!). Holsters were probably reasonable with a 1941 bringing around $150, however there were several re-pops/roaches that brought $50+ each.
There was one new manufactured unmarked board stock with leather holster attached, sort of a Mauser Broom straight slot attaching iron. I hoped it was for my Inglis High Power, but considering that it brought $250, I'll never know.
What I have so far failed to mention is that there is a 10% buyer's fee, plus 7% state sales tax, and a $25/gun transfer fee, so figure a 20% hit on top of the sale price.
Lots of sales went to internet buyers, but overall it seemed like there was some pretty stupid money being thrown about.
So I wasted an afternoon and invested $6 for lunch.
dju

[alvin]

There are some cheap guns, not many though. Most are compromise between condition, rarity, and price. Using $6 lunch as an example, unless you can skip eating, some money need to be spent on that anyway. Of course, if cooking yourself, maybe $4 can be saved, but you have to spend more time and effort on driving to supermarkets, comparing price, cooking, and washing dishes, etc. .....although the implied effort is commonly ignored, it's there.

[Mauser720]

David -

Thank you for sharing your auction experience.

I have been having pretty much the same experience with various on-line "live" auctions and it is somewhat of a mystery to me. You would think that if the economy is so bad that you would expect to see items being sold for more reasonable prices. But that just is not the case.

I have even seen a few of my own maximum bids that I thought were outrageously high still get beaten.

One possible explanation for what is going on is that there are still lots of uninformed bidders out there who simply do not realize that they are paying far more for something than it is actually worth. If someone has more money than knowledge, then they can run the price up beyond what it is actually worth. I think that is still happening.

And I also think that in the bidding action some bidders are forgetting that they have to add the buyer's premiums, fees, ets., to their bids. And as you point out, this can really amount to a lot of money too. A $1,200 item can end up costing $1,405.00 by the time you add all the "extras" to the winning bid. (This was my recent experience although I knew this and was well aware this was going to happen.)

Anyway, that's my "two cents" worth regarding current auctions in general. The current auction climate is certainly not what one would expect to encounter.

[DavidJayUden]

When the guy walked past carrying his 2 new trophy repop. artillery board stocks that he just paid $500 total for, I was tempted to offer him my handkercheif. But he looked so proud...
dju

[newluger]

I'm very glad that someone has finally brought up this topic. I'm still a novice when it comes to collecting Lugers, but in the past year this forum has taught me a lot. Last November I attended the Military Collector Association gun show here in Franklin Tennessee. We usually attend on opening Friday morning in hopes of finding something interesting. Well, as the story goes, the only thing that I found was a C96 Mauser Bolo Broomhandle. This piece had been abused and the barrel had pretty well been shot out. The guy wanted $400. They quote these prices without even cracking a smile. I went back on Sunday afternoon
afternoon and offered him $250. He wouldn't budge but let me have it for $300. I just got it back yesterday from the Broom Closet. What was once a sows ear is now a fairly nice looking Broomhandle.

Last month, we attended the association's spring show. There were a lot of Lugers there, and with the little knowledge that I had gained, I went in prepared to do battle. I looked at a Mauser BYF that the guy wanted $1300. It was fairly clean and appeared that the numbers matched. Furthur looking found a couple of pistols with the Mauser hump along with holsters that may have been original for about $1300. But at the next table, a guy had a DWM for about the same price without a holster. This was Friday morning. The next day I went back, and looked at the first Mauser BYF for $1300. I litterally took it apart, examined all of the parts with a magnifier and bore light, and even with non matching grips and magazine, I offered him as a starting price $900. He said no and said that the price was $1500.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that by people not knowing, they are paying high prices, and only driving prices up. The guys selling the guns don't care. they get the guns cheep and then turn around and make a few quick buck.

I thought we were in a recession?

Take a look at what is happening with the Broomhandles. It appears to me that this is the hot item now. The prices just keep going up, and they will continue untill we say "Enough is enough."

Well, anyway, I've got my Lugers. I've got my Broomhandle. I'm satified.

There, I got that off my chest!

Newluger

[alvin]

Originally Posted by newluger

Take a look at what is happening with the Broomhandles. It appears to me that this is the hot item now. The prices just keep going up, and they will continue untill we say "Enough is enough."

Nice Broomhandles are always hot. It's not cheap. But if looking around, having patience, it's possible to find small ring hammers at discounted price. I have "brokered" a few of those. Not much profit though, and earning this money comes with risk and uncertainty. If for money alone, not worth the effort IMO. But there was some fun.

Jerry 'conehammer' has been in this hobby for decades. Maybe CH was much cheaper in the past. Nowadays, put price aside, we simply did not see those, except a few South African instances.

====

[Edit] I noticed Broomhandle community is also different from that of Lugers -- there are many C96 collectors talking about relining, restoration etc, in serious way. Why? I would think in this way the market balancing itself by those activities -- now tens of thousands C96 imported from China in 1980s can be counted in this context (otherwise, most of those could not play conventional 'collector' role), the supply is becoming much bigger, and price is dragged down. For startup, that's good news.

[Mauser720]

"When the guy walked past carrying his 2 new trophy repop. artillery board stocks that he just paid $500 total for, I was tempted to offer him my handkercheif."

David -

I think I may know about the handkerchief to which you are referring. Is that the one that has the toll-free telephone number and the web site address for "Bidders Anonymous" on it?

[saab-bob]

I have been noticing the same trend as the rest of you. Been looking for reasonably priced Artillery luger. Just a decent matching shooter,no joy. I made a few bids at the recent RIA auction and most everything went for big money(in my humble opinion).
A buddy was talking to one of the Greg Martin Auction guys at the recent Reno show He was told that military automatic pistols are the hot sellers right now.
My feeling is that people who are not really informed collectors are buying many of these guns as comparatively inexpensive investments.The stock market is in turmoil(as evidenced by last weeks huge swing). Gold is at record highs. Runaway inflation and civil unrest are real possibilities. I think for some folks a few extra shoot-able guns that will always have value are comforting.

Bob

[alvin]

What really surprised me was those guns asking a few thousands going easily, and those with great shootable value bearing $400-$500 price tag stay and I have to "consume" them. Fortunately, the total sum is not big anyway. So, I planned to buy some ammo and consume them myself

[Edward Tinker]

Couple of comments:

Originally Posted by newluger

I'm very glad that someone has finally brought up this topic.

Why didn't you bring this up?

I guess what I am trying to say, is that by people not knowing, they are paying high prices, and only driving prices up. The guys selling the guns don't care. they get the guns cheep and then turn around and make a few quick buck.

Who says they buy cheap? I'd like to buy some quality guns and sell them for a huge profit? But I notice it doesn't seem to happen much
I just got back from the Allentown show, and sold 1 luger to another dealer, although I sold several other things.

What I notice is that every seller who comes in with a luger thinks their luger is worth $2,000 or more.

And every dealer thinks every luger is worth $2500 or more?

HOWEVER, I have tried to sell guns on auctions such as gunbroker and MY items aren't 'flying" off the shelf at a huge price.

And perhaps using Rock Island or Greg Martin are not the best examples, as they are renowned for higher prices. I have had 2 or 3 guys I know say they were going to sell their collection through them; its simply such a huge name that many folks look there for lugers and I think unless you can see them in real life, you're taking too much of a chance; as your ending bid, PLUS the commission and shipping realy ads up.


Ed

[highwayman]

Since prices have gone up on lugers I wish I had bought a few I passed up 9 yrs ago. One I had passed on was a #'s matching S/42 with matching mag for $700. It was in very good condition and the bore was perfect. Another was a Kreighoff with 6 inch barrel #'s matching for $2,200 in excellent condition, never blued, all original. The last was a DWM 1916 #'s matching but the bluing was about 60% and well used for $450. I guess I better save my $$ for the gun show coming to my town in August. I might get a good deal, never know. I am glad I got a #'s matching commercial Luger for $300 that needed a good cleaning a few years ago. I can't believe the prices on them now, unreal. As for the Fremont NE auction that town is close to me so you might have had some "rich farmers" show up with some $$ burning a hole in their pocket...

[alvin]

Talking about gun price makes us feel like a businessman, not a collector. If in this field for a few years, it's almost inevitable playing both the buyer and seller's role. As a buyer, a collector has a disadvantage: say you go to a gun show, see a great item bearing high price, through fruitless bargain, no agreement is reached. How many times you feel very happy on this result... say I save some dollar and avoid a big ticket item. Here is one way to play: don't buy easily. Stay back. If you forget the item in a couple of weeks, you don't need it. If you still think about it everyday, burn time and gas trying to find another instance, probably one day you will think "what's the hell worth so much effort?" -- then, you need that item, buy it.

===

BTW, I read so many times saying wives were mad on guns. Put everything aside, if acquiring one, losing $$, acquiring another one, losing $$, acquiring yet another one, the trend does not stop.... even if wives did not say anything, can this sustain?