Auction Luger

I think keeping this He said or She said stuff out of our little Luger Town, is the best way to do things! It keeps untrue information from spreding like a Brush Fire that could burn Luger Town to the ground!!! Thats My opinion.


Best regards,Brandon

[John D.]

about giving opinions on what is "good" and "bad". I think your said: "...In this thread, you have responses saying this gun is not correct, which makes you in some way libel, doesn't it.."


Not at all... You see the "same" auction I do - along with the same photographs. While in this case, on this Luger - I agree with you that it looks correct - I drew that "opinion" by seeing what you saw. We have the same "reference point" - to have similar or dissimilar conclusions. Anyone can express their opinion about that same reference point. It's one of the neat things about a Forum like this.


However, as I stated previously in my other post - since I'm not a "friend of a friend who heard it from.." - we don't and can't share the "reference point" - so its apples and oranges.


Finally - this Board has no "sponsors". Iâ??m not sure where you got the idea it had â??sponsorsâ?�?. Sponsors imply that the financial burden is shared, or that I bill people/companies/businesses to offset the monthly costs. There are no "sponsors" (unless you include "me", as I pay for this each month). In fact - do you see a single banner ad on this site - anywhere? Nope. Does anyone pay to be a "member"? Nope. Do businesses pay money for the right to be recognized here? Not that I'm aware of - and I'd probably know. We have no â??sponsorsâ?�.

I for 1 and Surely many many more Really Appreciate all you do around here! We wouldn't have a Luger Forum around if it wasen't for people like You and Dok! Keep up the good work!!


Many thanks,Brandon

[Roadkill]

John D & Dok;

Ya'll being too d*** polite. Tell them to go somewhere else if they don't like the way you run it. Or better yet, just block em out.What can they do about it? They'll catch on after a while.


Roadkill

[Johnny Peppers]

I'm sure glad Tom and bill m stepped up to the plate in defense of the subject Luger. I had looked at the pictures repeatedly and found nothing wrong with the pistol.

[bill m]

John,

I said earlier that you were the boss and I respected your opinion on this. The way you want it, will be the way it is. In no way was I trying to criticize you, but only sharing some concerns that I had with you and the rest of the Forum. I'm sure I am not the only one with some of these opinions. This was never intended to be something personal towards you, but only concerns and suggestions. I'm sorry I used the word "sponsor" and thank you for correcting me. Recommended was more correct. My intentions were honest and sincere though, and only another viewpoint to bring to your attention.

[John D.]

I appreciate your reply Bill..


Honestly - I do take this personally, though, as it is my butt that gets served with the court papers, and the cost of attorneys and even the threat of litigation is from my check-book.


Also - I'm sure your view is shared by others - but I'll ask them to be in "my shoes" for a bit. Run a website that has no accountability for posts and I'll tell you that only two things will happen - (1) either they are being sued, or (2) they will be sued. It's an unfortunate commentary on a lot of aspects to society to being responsible for our actions and the aftermath.


Anyway - I do definitely agree with you about the Luger that started this thread


As for dealers that are "recommended" - yep, I agree with you there as well.. Recommended is probably a better term - but that would come from the opinions of the folks on this Forum - which is what it is all about to begin with...


Best to you...


John D.

Since it seems I have started quite a debate, I will throw in my personal experience to make it "valid first hand experience". Sig380 has a P.38 AC40 code pistol. He claimed the finish was excellent but then when further pressed, admitted it had quite a bit of finish missing. I then asked for his phone number to question him further on the piece as I thought it was a good deal if the info was correct. He completely evaded my request and replied with "I hope your having a good day......I REALLY hope your having a good day". Sounding like the response of a child. He only other thing he added to that was he would be gone on vacation for the weekend and the auction ended sunday. I think he didn't want to answer anymore questions and that was his way of telling me. I used another email address and emailed him on Sat. and somehow he managed to reply even though he was on "vacation". The auction ended with no bids and I again emailed him for his phone number and told him I wanted to purchase it. He wrote back with "Ok....thanks" but no phone number. I again emailed him and he replied with a phone number and "sorry its sold". Later on, I saw the same pistol appear on auctionarms.com under his same screen name. I think he stopped double posting because he was threatened with getting the boot but he may still be doing it. Just do a search on the subguns.com board of inquiry and judge for yourself. Sorry John & John, didn't mean to break the rules but just wanted to warn all the new and young collectors just starting out like me to be careful and not get taken.

[John D.]

Now - that's a terrific post - and what it's all about....!!! THANKS!!!


Would I watch out for someone who does this sort of thing? You bet - and thanks for the heads up!!!

I definately agree with Johns take on the subject, but healthy debate like Tom and Bill M brought up is also good!


I like to hear that a dealer is a difficult guy, but at the same time understand the legal ramifications unless the person says, they did this and this to ME, and here is the story.


Ed

[Dok]

At one point the Forum used to "recommend" dealers. In fact we called them Preferred Vendors. Gave them a "gold star" even in the Links & Resources section. But bill m's point about balance and fair reporting soon became pretty obvious.


I became acutely aware that many people had had bad dealing with even the most respected of dealers, and that this was normal business events, not all deals go well, even under the best of times.


It was also obvious that we couldn't act as the "dealings Police", while on the one hand we were saying "This guy is great", but on the other we were NOT reporting all the bad reports we had...


So we dropped the the "Preferred VEndor" stuff, and now take the position that each person must do his own due diligence. And we will support good and BAD "first hand" reports, we will oppose random rumours.


John D. performs a stellar but thankless task, and it's up to us all to support him in every way possible. Not only because the Forum depends on it, but it's also the right thing to do.


Dok

[Johnny Peppers]

Excellent post Dok. One person can give a glowing report about a dealer while another has had a bad experience. Do you believe one, both, or neither? I would only add that if the deal starts off bad, there is little chance that it is going to get better. Why try to continue a deal that stinks from the beginning?

[Jim Van Eldik]

When comments are positive say anything you like. When negative be careful to stay with facts only. Do not make personal comments. Character assassination whether deserved or not leads to disaster, legally and morally.

I am very much in agreement with "Der Dok",

John is providing us with a place to discuss Lugers,

He gains nothing except the good will and personal good feeling of opening "His House" and parlor to allow us as His Guests to have a place for discussion.

We Owe Him The Respect of treating his territory as we would expect others to treat ours,

and that means that we should never expose him to be legally harrassed for allowing negative and baseless postings.

(That is to say "If You Say It, Stand behind it with Your Reputation"), Do not place John D in the middle of your argument with someone, as you hide behind "They Said".

Nothing personal or intended to point at anyone in particular.

They say's, cannot be checked for accuracy,

"I said" Can!

My $0.03 worth.

ViggoG