Toggle locked back with magazine out

RShaw · 09-11-2017, 04:11 PM

Hi All,
A little problem with my shooter 1918 DWM
When shooting S&B 115 gr FMJRN
which has worked well in the past, the toggle has now locked back and I cannot release it to chamber a round. Magazine is out, gun is empty and still the toggle is back with the chamber open . Barrel is locked back , sideplate can be easily removed but toggle assembly not moving.
Has anyone seen this before?
Ideas?
Hear from you soon I hope
Thanks

gunbugs · 09-11-2017, 04:17 PM

Sounds like a broken hold open. Jammed in the "up" position. Not uncommon, from what I hear.

sheepherder · 09-11-2017, 04:17 PM

Have you removed the grips and looked inside???

Could the takedown lever be holding the receiver back???

Edit: Sounds like Doug is onto it...

RShaw · 09-11-2017, 04:25 PM

I pulled the grips, but cannot see What's keeping it open

Takedown lever freely rotates as it should
I'llcheck a complete dissasembly YouTube video to get at the hold open?
Gave never done that before...

sheepherder · 09-11-2017, 04:55 PM

Try pushing down on the holdopen as far back as you can (red line points to farthest back I could go). Hold the toggle so it doesn't snap against your dowel or rod, whichever...

It helps if you relieve some of the toggle pressure while pushing the holdopen...

RShaw · 09-11-2017, 05:20 PM

Well.... I got it!
Hold open is broken, toggle went forward. Then pulled back the toggle again; a piece fell out after pushing down as you said. One side is sheared off. Thanks

I've learned something

Can this gun be shot even without a hold open?
I should think so, only the toggle should not lock up after the last round.
Please advise?
Appreciate your help and your time

Glad this didn't happen with my one collector DWM

Ron Wood · 09-11-2017, 05:53 PM

It can be shot safely. The first issue German Army Lugers did not have a hold open.
Ron

RShaw · 09-11-2017, 05:56 PM

Great!
I appreciate all your help!
I can hear the rest of the hold open rattling in there... but I guess that's to be expected.
Thanks to all....

Ron Wood · 09-11-2017, 06:04 PM

Go ahead and remove the remaining parts of the hold open so it doesn't work loose and jam up or damage your action while you are shooting.

RShaw · 09-11-2017, 06:26 PM

Ok... I'll make an attempt

I have only done a simple field strip until now.
I'll proceed with caution

sheepherder · 09-11-2017, 07:10 PM

There was a similar broken holdopen just a few months ago, IIRC.

Tom Heller, Ed Tinker, Gerry Tomek, or another member with spare parts may be able to offer you a replacement holdopen.

RShaw · 09-11-2017, 10:44 PM

The metal break surface looks like it has crystallized.

Well... it IS 99 years old!
Thanks for the help..... yes I'll contact one of you for a spare holdopen if I cannot get one here.
Once again, thanks

Is there any way this can be prevented?
Ammunition was certainly not too much- (I hope) S&B 115 gr. FMJRN standard velocity.
Or is it a case of "Happens sometimes with an older gun."?
"You takes your chances." ?

Ron Wood · 09-11-2017, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RShaw

...Or is it a case of "Happens sometimes with an older gun."?
"You takes your chances." ?

Bingo

RShaw · 09-12-2017, 09:25 AM

"Go ahead and remove the remaining parts of the hold open so it doesn't work loose and jam up or damage your action while you are shooting."

Well, I removed the rest of the hold open in 1 piece, the little spur has indeed broken off

The little leaf spring is intact...

Well, if I had any temptations about shooting my collector 1917 DWM, they're gone now!!

Dwight Gruber · 09-12-2017, 11:35 AM

Be sure to keep the spring. If you are going to replace the holdopen at some point the replacement will likely come without a spring, and repro holdopen springs do not fit very well. Originals can sometimes be unobtanium.

--Dwight

RShaw · 09-12-2017, 12:00 PM

Thanks Dwight,
Yes I've kept both pieces including spring.
Maybe I'll use it without the hold open...but I would like to replace it...
VERY annoying....

Is there any chance I broke it when pushing down on it to free the toggle??
After shooting a round, the toggle locked up and back and did not release after that (also without the magazine) until I pushed out the broken spur. I don't recall hearing it snap.
Just trying to learn...
Thanks to all for answering all my questions

Lugerdoc · 09-12-2017, 12:20 PM

RS, I do have original Swiss made HOs with spring installed, which will work in your shooter. TH

RShaw · 09-12-2017, 02:39 PM

Thanks you VERY much Lugerdoc!
I am checking with a Luger collector here in the area, who might have one.
If he doesn't have this part, I will be SURE to call on you

My shooter is a 1918 DWM: photos here below:

kurusu · 09-12-2017, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbugs

Sounds like a broken hold open. Jammed in the "up" position. Not uncommon, from what I hear.

To me too. Seen it happen more than once.

And that is why I generally remove it when I go shooting.

Edit. Maybe I should have read the whole thread before posting.

kurusu · 09-12-2017, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RShaw

The metal break surface looks like it has crystallized.

Well... it IS 99 years old!
Thanks for the help..... yes I'll contact one of you for a spare holdopen if I cannot get one here.
Once again, thanks

Is there any way this can be prevented?
Ammunition was certainly not too much- (I hope) S&B 115 gr. FMJRN standard velocity.
Or is it a case of "Happens sometimes with an older gun."?
"You takes your chances." ?

Yes. Remove the holdopen before any shooting sessions.

09-11-2017, 04:11 PM	#1
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Toggle locked back with magazine out Hi All, A little problem with my shooter 1918 DWM When shooting S&B 115 gr FMJRN which has worked well in the past, the toggle has now locked back and I cannot release it to chamber a round. Magazine is out, gun is empty and still the toggle is back with the chamber open . Barrel is locked back , sideplate can be easily removed but toggle assembly not moving. Has anyone seen this before? Ideas? Hear from you soon I hope Thanks

09-11-2017, 04:17 PM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Have you removed the grips and looked inside??? Could the takedown lever be holding the receiver back??? Edit: Sounds like Doug is onto it... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-11-2017, 04:55 PM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Try pushing down on the holdopen as far back as you can (red line points to farthest back I could go). Hold the toggle so it doesn't snap against your dowel or rod, whichever... It helps if you relieve some of the toggle pressure while pushing the holdopen... Attached Thumbnails __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-11-2017, 05:20 PM	#6
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Well.... I got it! Hold open is broken, toggle went forward. Then pulled back the toggle again; a piece fell out after pushing down as you said. One side is sheared off. Thanks I've learned something Can this gun be shot even without a hold open? I should think so, only the toggle should not lock up after the last round. Please advise? Appreciate your help and your time Glad this didn't happen with my one collector DWM Attached Thumbnails __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

09-11-2017, 05:53 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	It can be shot safely. The first issue German Army Lugers did not have a hold open. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-11-2017, 04:17 PM	#2
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 660 Thanks: 366 Thanked 1,179 Times in 395 Posts	Sounds like a broken hold open. Jammed in the "up" position. Not uncommon, from what I hear.

09-11-2017, 04:25 PM	#4
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	I pulled the grips, but cannot see What's keeping it open Takedown lever freely rotates as it should I'llcheck a complete dissasembly YouTube video to get at the hold open? Gave never done that before...

09-11-2017, 05:56 PM	#8
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Great! I appreciate all your help! I can hear the rest of the hold open rattling in there... but I guess that's to be expected. Thanks to all....

09-11-2017, 06:04 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Go ahead and remove the remaining parts of the hold open so it doesn't work loose and jam up or damage your action while you are shooting. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-11-2017, 06:26 PM	#10
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Ok... I'll make an attempt I have only done a simple field strip until now. I'll proceed with caution

09-11-2017, 07:10 PM	#11
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	There was a similar broken holdopen just a few months ago, IIRC. Tom Heller, Ed Tinker, Gerry Tomek, or another member with spare parts may be able to offer you a replacement holdopen. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-11-2017, 10:44 PM	#12
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	The metal break surface looks like it has crystallized. Well... it IS 99 years old! Thanks for the help..... yes I'll contact one of you for a spare holdopen if I cannot get one here. Once again, thanks Is there any way this can be prevented? Ammunition was certainly not too much- (I hope) S&B 115 gr. FMJRN standard velocity. Or is it a case of "Happens sometimes with an older gun."? "You takes your chances." ?

09-12-2017, 09:25 AM	#14
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	"Go ahead and remove the remaining parts of the hold open so it doesn't work loose and jam up or damage your action while you are shooting." Well, I removed the rest of the hold open in 1 piece, the little spur has indeed broken off The little leaf spring is intact... Well, if I had any temptations about shooting my collector 1917 DWM, they're gone now!! Attached Thumbnails

09-12-2017, 11:35 AM	#15
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Be sure to keep the spring. If you are going to replace the holdopen at some point the replacement will likely come without a spring, and repro holdopen springs do not fit very well. Originals can sometimes be unobtanium. --Dwight

09-12-2017, 12:00 PM	#16
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Thanks Dwight, Yes I've kept both pieces including spring. Maybe I'll use it without the hold open...but I would like to replace it... VERY annoying.... Is there any chance I broke it when pushing down on it to free the toggle?? After shooting a round, the toggle locked up and back and did not release after that (also without the magazine) until I pushed out the broken spur. I don't recall hearing it snap. Just trying to learn... Thanks to all for answering all my questions

09-12-2017, 12:20 PM	#17
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	RS, I do have original Swiss made HOs with spring installed, which will work in your shooter. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

09-12-2017, 02:39 PM	#18
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Thanks you VERY much Lugerdoc! I am checking with a Luger collector here in the area, who might have one. If he doesn't have this part, I will be SURE to call on you My shooter is a 1918 DWM: photos here below: Attached Thumbnails