k-dated S/42

hi guys, what's this??? some of you told me here in the forum that my k-dated luger has to have no blueing inside. but what's this? i found this foto here in the forum and it looks 100% like my gun. is this one a rework or is it original??? there is no different point to my gun. the levers are looking like mine, and the inside is also blued. i hope for your answers. dieter




http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/K-...tenansicht.jpg

It has to be a rework. K-Dates have strawed small parts!!

[Marvin]

Dieter,


The East German rework I just purchased looks the same way as yours and the photo with all blue inside and the small parts blued also. I don't know what type bluing the East Germans used, but it does look a little better than the dip blue used by the Russians.


I have decided to let Ted add my name to his list for rework and take my East German rework, polish the metal close to the original, and have a better salt blue job done to it. This will not harm the value to me, make it look a little better and I will just have a few more dollars invested in it.


Marvin

[Johnny Peppers]

Now you have my curosity up. Why a salt blue rather than a rust blue?

[Marvin]

Hello Johnny,


You have a really good question and I will try to give you what my thinking is for the salt blue.


The pistol is an East German rework with the work being done by an authorized (ha, ha) Government in a Government arsenal. I considere this to be a variation rather than the dip blue given to Lugers by the Russians to "pretty" them up for just resale.


The "K" Date is in really nice condition and all matching, except they did no type metal work on the pistol prior to rebluing it. What I wanted Ted to do is to remove the existing blue, polish the metal a little to bring it back reasonably close to original and reblue using salt bluing. This will make the pistol look better, but retain the appearance of the East German rework. If I put it back to original condition with rust blue and straw parts, the East German stamps and the Crown/N proof would look a little funny.


Now, the only drawback to what I am thinking about, is that it would not be a true East German rework anymore either. A tough decision on my part????


The big decision is what will this pistol be classified as in the future, a shooter only, another distinct variation with possible collectibility status, or a highly collectible pistol? As we know, the value will indeed rise just from inflation, but am I making the right decision or not. I do have to wait a number of months before making the final decision to rework or not. What is your opinion of the future of these pistol, as I value your, and others, opinion greatly.


Marvin

Marvin. I would leave your Luger as is. I had my "K" date done as it was a Russian inport and when Ted refinished it he put it back to what a "K" date originally looked like. I debated restoring it as feel that even the Russians will someday be considered a variation after everyone gets done shooting or refinishing them. Each one changed just means less of the ones as originally imported. Know this bothers the purist but it is my Gun and my money and I think it it still America.

my god! i have been reading some of the messages on the board and found there is a whole world of people that are really experts about this weapon and talk about little refinements like different types of bluing and what country did what. I am pretty sure that nothing has been done to my uncle's luger, mine now. it's just like it always was since he brought it home, and although it has been fired, it's in perfect shape.from the story about how my uncle got it, i am pretty sure it is authentic and he was no liar, not even a bull shi--er. what are these weapons worth? is there a "blue book" for guns like this, like the Gun Digest? thanks. lawrence (larry) klang

[bill m]

Hi Marvin,

The imports have opened my eyes to another world of collecting. Before I started participating in this Forum I felt that the imports were just cheap shooters and not worthy of collecting as a special variation. Although I do not want to collect or even own one, I see that others are interested in them. I personally do not feel that the value is going to increase much, but who knows? The thing that puzzles me on these imports, is the fact that a lot of you seem to think that they have collector value and are a specific variation, but then you talk about restoring or refinishing or changing stuff to make them different. This confuses me. I do not see how you can have it both ways, a collector variation and a shooter, and how you can say that you have a collector variation import, and then "enhance" it to change it's appearance. This just doesn't make any sense to me. Really confused on these imports and there value and collector grades. This is one reason I feel they will never have that much interest or value. Personally, I only want original finished guns in my collection, regardless of the variation, and I just can't see how changing the appearance of an original or an import does anything for them, other than de-value the piece and make it a pretty shooter. I know I'm in the minority on this, but we each collect in our own way. Good Luck!

[BILL]

As surely as the reworked police guns have attained collector status, so will the East German reworks. I agree that refinishing them will decrease the collector value but I see 'restored' collector Lugers for sale for big bucks all the time. There will be a day when 'early Ted Green rework' will be included in the sales pitch. Stick around for 50 more years and remember where you read it first.

[G.T.]

Hi Bill! I too, have had a hard time collecting P.08's that are reworked and imported....but I think I see the value lines quite clearly, and while most long time collectors probably have pretty hard and fast rules, most shooters, tinkerers, and beginning collectors probably see it quite a bit differently! I think the Russian Imports, have gained slightly,(the nice ones) and in time will become a variation in their own right, If, left in their imported state of condition.... Their current value is a gray area to the people who desire this type of Luger...should they be collected and left as is? Should they be tinkered with to shoot better? Should they be restored to look as nice and original as they possibly can? I would say yes to all three! Although I don't feel that the current imports are quite as nice, I can remember when 1920 commercials were treated the same way, and there were always a half dozen at any gun show! In any event, the more you fool and fiddle around with Lugers the more you learn...and if these receint imports are training wheels for later on, or just a neat find, to pass the time till a "nice one comes around" then I think they are well worth their current price! Good Luck to all! till...later....G.T.

i have not so much money to collect 100% original, rare lugers (Krieghoff, Simson, K-date, Ari, Marine...). so i bought my k-date in a very excellent condition, but reblued. i paid 900 DM or 410 $, thats very cheap. all numbers are matching, also the barrel, only the side plate is a vopo one. but i got an original s-57 plate. i hope, i'll receive the grips from tom, put the right side-plate on it, make it look like 1934 and i'll have a lot of fun in watching it. it's not interesting for me, if it is a colector piece or not, or what's its worth. i'll have a k-date-luger, looking so like it was new in 1934, and it's very rare. luger-experts told me, they have never seen a k-date, that makes me a little bit proud.:-). there are no east-german markings on it! it has only the new-shooting marks from west-germany: an eagle (the old one) with a "N", the proof-mark from "Ulm" and a tester-mark "KS". the eagle with the N is also to find on both parts of the troggle and under the barrel. there are also the original markings all over the gun.

[Marvin]

Bill, G.T., Tracy; all you guys make some really good points on the imported Lugers whether they are the Russian Capture, or East German reworks. In 50 years I will probably not be around to know what the value of the pistols will be so I will look only at the short term for the 20 or so years. I agree that they will never have the following of a true collectible Luger, nor will the value ever increase other than inflation in the short term.


I do prefer the collectible Lugers in the 95%+ condition and that is what most of mine are. I bought the East German rework because it was a nice, early pistol and what I considered the best East German rework I have seen. I felt that this would be considered more collctible than the regular Russian import, but you never know this fickled world of collecting.


Anyway, I have only had about 2 hours to look at the pistol and still have a few months to make a firm decision on what to do. I appreciate the comments from all you guys on this; it is great to have you guys to count on for help.


Marvin

[G.T.]

Orv Reichert (Orv, correct me if I'm wrong!) "The only gun deals you'll ever regret, are the ones you sold, or didn't buy"....... If it's nice, get it! Good luck! ...till....later....G.T.

Since most Russian and EG reworks that I've seen (probably about 100) have been crudely renumbered to match and some badly reblued, in my opinion the ones most like to appreciate in value, are the EG issued and heavily proofed with 5 or more different proofs or the rarer new production ones, not the ones reworked and put into storage in 1953. See Buxton's Vol 3 of "The P38 Pistol". I've alreary sold one of the new production (N prefix 1000 to 1150 --only 150 guns made) EG pistol rigs for $1500.

[Hugh]

Gess I mite as wel throw in my 2DM wurth. If none uv the parts hav ben renumberd an they all match, I wud hav Ted restor hit to origunal condishun. If sum uv the parts hav ben renumbrd, I wud leve it az iz ifn u want hit to b a "colectabl variashun".

[Thor]

Hey Hugh, better stay off the "moonshine" and dont work on my Baby Luger until you sober up, ya hear! That shine is turning you into a "Bubba" lol! Alway enjoy your INTUR PREE TA SHUN of the English LANGUAGEY Thor

[Marvin]

G. T.,


Wow, what a mouthful you said! The gun deals I have regreted are the one where I sold or traded one. If I buy a firearm, I like regardless of what anyone else may think of it, and I feel anyone who buys any type firearm should be happy with it.


As to my opinion on the import pistols of which I have a couple, they are just as important to me from a historical standpoint and the non import marked pistols. They even have more history if the facts were known.


Marvin