Lugers With Duplicate Serial Numbers

[admiral1960]

Hi everyone,

Back from elk hunt.

Started looking through "THE LUGER PISTOL" by Fred DATIG and saw that there are Lugers out there with duplicate serial numbers.

I basically understand what he is saying but a little confused. Will have to go back for another session and see if it makes more sense.

That is unless one of you guys has a simpler explanation.

[Edward Tinker]

unsure what part you are talking about in Datig; but realize that the book by Datig is about 45 years old

So, duplicate numbers are not truley duplicates, but they are.

Lets take WW1 lugers; a true serial number is the front number on the frame, plus "usually" the suffix. But, each year made would have many of the same suffixes, especially 1917 and 1918, AND two companies made hundreds of thousands of lugers, Erfurt and DWM

So, short answer is Erfurt and DWM made lugers and they were numbered in blocks of 10,000, each 10k had a new suffix, so; 1, 2, 3, 4 then each number up to 9999, the 1a, 2a, 3a, then the next block would be 1b, 2b, etc.

In the big picture, DWM made many different years with different suffixes, then Mauser did the same.

Ed

[admiral1960]

The book I have was published in 1962 and is the "Enlarged Revised Edition" pages 14-15.

I reread it a couple of times and I think he was trying to say that if you ignore the year code and manufacturers code there were 250-300 pistols with the same serial numbers over the course of WW I & WW II. That is 250-300 with S/N 0001 a, 250-300 with S/N 0002 a. etc.

If I read what he is saying correctly, Dartig is saying that in one year during WW I the numbering cycle was repeated 48 times. His total production numbers may be correct but the tables I have seen do not support 480,000 in one year.

His point was that you make sure you record the whole Luger S/N with supporting info (year made / Manufacture code) so if someone trys to say yours is a stolen Luger you have a complete S/N to prove ownership.

As far as I know there was never a year where one company produced over 260,000 guns and had to start the numbering cycle over.

[Edward Tinker]

yes, 1962 equals 45 years old. I was born in 1960, and hit my 47th birthday last month.


Datig is wrong, and his information is far out of date. It is worthwhile to own, but don't use it for hard facts. That said, there were years where 180 thousand lugers were made by one company (Erfurt 1917). Many years more than 85-100 thousand were made, so lots of suffixes, and lots of same serial numbers.

His point is completely correct; if some tells you that 6441 was once stolen, they should be able to tell you that it was an "Erfurt, 1914, sn 6441 (no suffix)". Because sn 6441 was made by DWM, by Erfurt, by Simson, by Krieghoff and by Mauser, and with suffixes, 6441 was made many, many times.

Ed

[Big Norm]

Ed,
47 year old!!! Holy Cow!! That changes the present that I planned to send to you for Chrismas. Now where is that bottle of blue pills that I could send to you instead?
Big Norm (no pun intended )

[Dwight Gruber]

Just as an example of how pervasive the duplicate Luger serial number situation is, I have drawn up an example list of models among which will be found identical serial numbers. I have chosen the most extreme situation, variations which can be found with four-digit, no-suffix serial numbers.

--Dwight


1900 Commercial or AE or Swiss Commercial
1900 Swiss Military
1906 Swiss Military cross-in-sunburst or cross-in-shield
1908 DWM
1912 DWM
1913 DWM
1914 DWM standard or LP-08
1915 DWM standard or LP-08
1916 DWM standard or LP-08
1917 DWM standard or LP-08
1918 DWM standard or LP-08
1920 DWM Police (WaA proofs)

1904 Navy
1906 Navy
1916 Navy
1917 Navy
P-08 Navy

1910 Erfurt
1911 Erfurt
1912 Erfurt
1913 Erfurt
1914 Erfurt standard or LP-08
1916 Erfurt
1917 Erfurt
1918 Erfurt

S/42 K-date
S/42 1937
42 1940
byf 41
byf 42
Mauser â??Bundes Heerâ?�
Mauser K�¼

Krieghoff G-date
Krieghoff S-date
Krieghoff 36
Krieghoff 1936
Krieghoff 1937
Krieghoff 1938

Simson no date or 1925 or 1926

1906 Dutch or Vickers
1908 Dutch
1908 Dutch Navy

1906 Bulgarian
1908 Bulgarian

1906 Royal Portuguese Navy (crown/Anchor)
1906 Royal Portuguese Army (M2)
1906 Republic Portuguese Navy (R.P./Anchor)

1906 Brazilian

1906 Russian

[admiral1960]

Are you saying same serial number, different maker or same serial number same maker.

If the former, not really a problem as long as you know who made it.

If the latter, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........................

[Dwight Gruber]

I'm saying that each of the models listed can have a serial number up to four digits (without letter suffix), in a series independent from each other. Each of the individual variations listed, regardless of manufacturer, could have a gun with serial number 641, for instance. (Not all of the variations had production above 1,000 units).

In order to uniquely identify a Luger, one must include:

Manufacturer/toggle mark
chamber date or other chamber mark (or blank)
frame serial number, with suffix--specify "ns" (no suffix) if one is not present
caliber
collector variation, if known

--Dwight

[Heinz]

Dwight hat the nail on the head. Different date military series will have the same serial numbers, a 1914 DWM, 1915 DWM, and 1916 DWM all have a pistol with the number 1000. They also have a number 1000a and so on. Look at Dwight's post. Erfurt 1915 would also have a 1000 but it would not be a DWM, but it would have the same number.

[admiral1960]

All good info.

One more question: Are there any known lugers made by same company, same year, same S/N, same suffix if there is one, same chamber date or other chamber mark (or blank), same caliber, same proof marks or any other known marking that are identical except for normal wear & tear.

If there are I would be a little surprised,

Note: I am being surprised all the time

Thanks for any more input this generates !!

[Edward Tinker]

no, not possible