Short Barrel Artillery

[Hugo Borchardt]

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...1c338b45cb3562

At first I thought it a Martz gun. Barrel is numbered. Did someone go through trouble to shorten the barrel?

Why would anyone bother to do this?

Clark

[nukem556]

Clark, I saw that too....strange modification....you end up with a Luger with half the sight radius it should have. I certainly wouldnt give that kinda money for it!

[Edward Tinker]

Interesting, you hear about barrels would be shortened to meet the Versailles officials, but have never seen one shortened like that.

I have seen them like 1 inch shorter....

Seems a bit of money to me too for one modified?


Ed

[Norme]

Hi Clark, Many Imperial Navies were shortened in just that way, but this is the first Artillery I've seen modified like that. Usually you see them with replaced barrels and rear toggles. Regards, Norm

[CAP Black]

It looks like the kind of thing someone would do by computer using photoshop or whatever, just as a gimmick. But to actually do that to a nice gun is awful. Any collector would have to be as goofy as the people who screwed that gun up. Does the work appear to have been done professionally? What a shame.

[Norme]

Originally Posted by CAP Black

It looks like the kind of thing someone would do by computer using photoshop or whatever, just as a gimmick. But to actually do that to a nice gun is awful. Any collector would have to be as goofy as the people who screwed that gun up. Does the work appear to have been done professionally? What a shame.

Hi Jack, Yes, it was done professionally, very professionally. Rigorous arms restrictions were imposed upon Germany after WW1 by the victorious allies, one of these was a limit on barrel length. Regards, Norm

[George Anderson]

I disagree with Norm on the Versailles Treaty restricting barrel lengths. The treaty did restrict the number of military calibre pistols that could be produced to a number appropriate to sustain the needs of a 100,000 man army and later the national police forces. I believe that the pistol is one that was shortened for either the army or police during the Weimar era simply because the eight inch barrel was deemed unneeded by whatever unit had the weapon.

[Norme]

Hi George, I must confess that I have not read the Treaty of Versailles, but I have read "Weimar and Early Nazi Lugers" by Jan C. Still. Still states, on page 12, that the IMKK interpreted the Treaty as restricting military pistols to a barrel length of less than 100mm. Of course, we all know that these restrictions were widely ignored. Best regards, Norm

[sheepherder]

The correct nomenclature for this Luger is "DWM 1915 Mortar Luger"...

(Because a short artillery piece is a mortar...broadly speaking...)

I know, it's lame...but the best I could come up with...

One of our members here posted pics of his shorty Arty some time back...Looked pretty much the same as this castrated Artillery...(This is the Simpson's)...

[MFC]

[QUOTE=postino;200348]The correct nomenclature for this Luger is "DWM 1915 Mortar Luger"...

Definitely sounds better than a "Baby artillery" .

[Edward Tinker]

The Versailles Treaty does not state that the barrel must be shortened, however, as I said, the treaty countries did impose and long barrel lugers were deemed to be undesirable and they had to be turned in.

As examples of how this was accomplished

DWM was prohibited from manufacturing military weapons after 1921, and was required to destroy their army-manufacture equipment. They were, however, allowed to manufacture pistols for the German and export commercial market. In the case of the Luger pistol, this was accomplished by simply limiting production to 7.65mm, with barrels shorter than the 100mm (four inches) which had been decreed as the delimiter between commercial and military weapons

This is gathered from several documents and decrees from the IMKK, in association with the Versailles Treaty, but not strictly under the auspices of the Treaty itself.


Ed

[MikeP]

Used to be a guy here in Illinois from Peoria that had one of these.
He always had Lugers at shows and always brought it as a curiosity.

He had acquired it from a vet just after WW2.

Looked like a factory job.

Been slmost 40 years since I last saw it.

[Lugerdoc]

Clark, I have also seen a couple of these 4" LPO8 conversion, which I agree make no sense with the tangent rear sight on the barrel. My theory on the 7" conversions, is that these were ones with a "frozen up" fine tune front sight, and the easiest correction was to chop them off at the rear of the front sight base and silver soder on a fixed front sight. TH

[jcoe]

Here is a similar shortened LP08 that was presented on gunboards. Barrel was reduced with the same technique used to shorten the 1920 red nine barrels.
John
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...highlight=lp08

[Hugh]

I have a Baby Artillery that I built, but only cut the bbl to 6" to maintain the correct proportions. Also a Baby Navy with a 4.5" bbl. I will take pictures and post them when I get the chance.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by jcoe

Here is a similar shortened LP08 that was presented on gunboards. Barrel was reduced with the same technique used to shorten the 1920 red nine barrels.
John
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...highlight=lp08

Pics are missing. Did you save them???

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

There is a baby artillery in an album in the Members Gallery. You have to go to page 6 to see the album.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/gallery2...serialNumber=2

http://forum.lugerforum.com/gallery2...serialNumber=2

That is Art Buchanan's Baby Arty.

[Hugh]

Here are pictures of my Baby Arty, Baby Navy, & Baby Armies:

[jcoe]

Here are some pictures of DWM 1917 LP08 7029e with barrel shortened to 4.5 inches (http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...highlight=lp08).
In addition to cut and sleeve of the barrel and front sight, the barrel stub was also turned down, apparently to approximate the barrel diameter to the front sight sleeve diameter. Picture 3 compares barrel of 7029e to another unaltered 1917 LP08. From point A to B, diameter of 7029 barrel goes from 15.75 to 15.00 mm whereas normal barrel progressed from 15.80 to 15.25 mm. Picture 4 shows light milling marks on barrel of 7029. The joint of barrel stub and sight sleeve was concentric and nice (picture 5) although the sight sleeve was slightly smaller (14.70 vrs 15.00). Picture 6 of the muzzle of 7029, shows the 1 mm peripheral rim of the sight sleeve that barely catches a fingernail. This looks like a lot of work by what I would assume was a experienced machinist.
John