shooting cast bullets in the Luger

[DavidJayUden]

Several years ago I was beating my head against the wall trying to get a load to work in the Luger using cast bullets. I used a lot of different combos but none worked, always feeding issues. Looking back now I seem to recall that they all used 125 gr. bullets.

Missouri Bullet Co. now offers a 115 gr. round nose 9mm "Parabellum" bullet, and using 5.6 grains of Unique, and setting OAL to 1.115", they seem to work very nicely. The leading in the barrel seems minimal. It is a fast, full power load and all the Lugers, 4", Navy, and Artillery, all function correctly with it.

They also feed well in my repro. snail drum.

dju

[ithacaartist]

David,

Wasn't the bullet originally specified a truncated cone? Were the 125gr you tried RN or TC?

[DavidJayUden]

D:
The 125 gr. bullets that I struggled with were a round nose design, probably also from Mo. Bullet Co.
I suspect that a truncated cone design may be more authentic, but some of the more experienced collectors should weigh in on this issue.
And I should add that one reason for pursuing this issue was the lack of available bulk jacketed 9mm bullets. There was a delay on the cast bullets but not too bad.
As far as I know that reasonable priced jacketed bullets for reloading are still unobtainium. And when they were they were bloody expensive.
dju

[ithacaartist]

Mechanically, the TCmakes sense, along the lines of a smaller diameter leading the way--which would give more leeway in deviation from a path that is straight and true into the chamber--and result in fewer nose-to-breech rim snagging.

Ever tried of casting your own?

[DavidJayUden]

I do enough stupid sh-t to myself without bending over and breathing hot molten lead. If I didn't poison myself I'd probably burn the place down.
dju

[John Sabato]

The original truncated cone bullet design goes a long way toward eliminating feeding problems in my experience. I used to reload lead bullets of that design years ago, and never had any problem with them but leading in the barrel. I think my supplier was using almost pure lead and that was the issue...

[rhuff]

David,

I have not tried using lead bullets for my 9mm loading for the Luger, but have with the 30 Luger brass. I was having a problem with adequate neck tension on the JSP bullets that I was trying to load(discovered it was problems with the dies). I ordered a few 92gr LRN bullets from Western Bullet Company that advertises these bullets as for the 30 Luger brass.

These bullets are said to be .309 dia, but in reality, they are .310-.311 in. dia. and work wonderfully in the old Luger barrel. No sign of leading, and my reloads are up to factory spec. as far as velocity. I don't recall the BHN. They are apparently obturating very well.

I am another reloader that gets good results loading 9mm with Unique powder. It just works!! I am currently using only Precision Delta 115gr FMJ bullets. An excellent bullet with a price lower than plated(but more than lead, of course). I ordered a large amount BEFORE the election, so am in great shape bullet-wise. you might want to consider them, but if you are getting good results with lead bullets, it is hard to argue with success.....and saving money!!

[DavidJayUden]

I am only going to lead bullets to save money and because of the lack of post-election availability of the bulk FMJ. Midway USA did accept my backorder for some yesterday, however, so we will see how long it takes before the order is filled.

[noylj]

I find that my P-08 Lugers and P-38 Walthers all feed L-SWCs quite well--from the Lee 358-102-SWC to any of the 124-125gn SWCs I have found.
COL seems to be key for me.
You can check Montana Gold and Precision Delta for jacketed bullets.

[Sieger]

Dave,

If you search my name, you will find, scattered around in the Reloading Section, about four lead bullet loads I've developed, over the years. They are all "one holers" with perfect function. Three shot clover leafs are common, if you do your part.

With SWC bullets, it depends upon the make of the bullet, as some perform perfectly, while others jump out of the magazine into midair.

Contrary to popular belief, the 9mm will, indeed, shoot lead bullets accurately, if you take your time in working up the load.

Good shooting!!

Sieger

[noylj]

PS: There are NO lead vapors until you are near the boiling point of lead--and casting is at least 1000-2000°F from boiling.
9x19s like large lead bullets (generally 0.357-0.358"). SWCs work in all my P-08s (Lugers) and P-38s (Walthers) along with S&W, Browning, EAA, and CZ.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by noylj

PS: There are NO lead vapors until you are near the boiling point of lead--and casting is at least 1000-2000°F from boiling.
9x19s like large lead bullets (generally 0.357-0.358"). SWCs work in all my P-08s (Lugers) and P-38s (Walthers) along with S&W, Browning, EAA, and CZ.

Hi,

A special caution on using bullets with diameters greater than .356 inches in a Luger's (Pistole Parabellum's) chamber; as often they will not let the Luger go into full battery, causing a very dangerous situation, as a Luger can fire out of battery.

.358 diameter bullets will not chamber in my Lugers at all, when loaded out to proper O.A.L..

Some brands of SWC will chamber in a Luger, some will not. It seem to depend upon the width of the "cutting edge" part of the bullet. The ones that will not chamber, jump out of the pistol into mid-air!!!

Again, be very careful regarding the diameter of the bullets you load for a Luger pistol.


Sieger

[noylj]

My P-08s all feed 0.357-0.358" SWCs just fine. The COL is such that the shoulder just misses the lede/rifling. Chambers all seem more that large enough (OD) for the case to drop in. The only feeding problem I have ever had was a round stuck and action wouldn't close. When I get the round out, there was that darn ridge halfway around the case just above the extractor groove. Case must have had a slight bulge and the sizing die simply raised a ridge. I now run all my range pick-up through the Lee Bulge Buster and a Lee 9mm Mak FCD.
I am always reading about people who have tight chambers in their 9x19s that can't feed a 0.357-0.358" bullet. I would love to see one of these guns some day. Would love to try loading for such a gun.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by noylj

My P-08s all feed 0.357-0.358" SWCs just fine. The COL is such that the shoulder just misses the lede/rifling. Chambers all seem more that large enough (OD) for the case to drop in. The only feeding problem I have ever had was a round stuck and action wouldn't close. When I get the round out, there was that darn ridge halfway around the case just above the extractor groove. Case must have had a slight bulge and the sizing die simply raised a ridge. I now run all my range pick-up through the Lee Bulge Buster and a Lee 9mm Mak FCD.
I am always reading about people who have tight chambers in their 9x19s that can't feed a 0.357-0.358" bullet. I would love to see one of these guns some day. Would love to try loading for such a gun.

Hi:

Our issue is that we load our bullets out, to say, 29mm (1.14 inches) O.A.L., or so, so as to allow the proper feeding of eight full rounds without jamming.

You seem to be loading much deeper (.45 Automatic style). I've never tried this, again, because my Lugers will not feed eight full rounds positively with such short cartridges. By the time you load that deeply and roll crimp a bit, its really hard to say what the actual remaining diameter of the lead bullet is in the cartridge itself.

Again, there are SWC bullet types that I have found perfectly reliable when loaded out to 29mm O.A.L.. I do enjoy shooting these, because of the perfectly round holes they leave in my paper targets.

This may help to explain things a bit.


Sieger

[noylj]

How can you load a SWC longer than having the shoulder just touch the lede/rifling? My COL ranges from 1.025" to 1.041". The H&G12B gave me a 140gn SWC that I loaded to 1.050". Any longer and I would either be jamming the bullet severely into the rifling or the action wouldn't close.
The Lee .38 158gn SWC could be loaded to 1.140".
Have you considered a bad magazine? I have three pre-WWII "lugers" and they all fire SWCs fine. My WWII P-38s feed and fire them fine.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by noylj

How can you load a SWC longer than having the shoulder just touch the lede/rifling? My COL ranges from 1.025" to 1.041". The H&G12B gave me a 140gn SWC that I loaded to 1.050". Any longer and I would either be jamming the bullet severely into the rifling or the action wouldn't close.
The Lee .38 158gn SWC could be loaded to 1.140".
Have you considered a bad magazine? I have three pre-WWII "lugers" and they all fire SWCs fine. My WWII P-38s feed and fire them fine.

Hi:

Here are the SWCs I shoot in my Lugers with extreme accuracy and reliability (absolutely no jamming):

Bushwhacker Bullets, LLC, Ron Roehrs, 417-681-0506, their 125 gr. SWC, my cartridge O.A.L., 29.0mm (1.14 inches). When loaded to this length, the bullets just barely kiss the rifling.

These shoot very accurately when mated with a proper charge of SR 4756 or Power Pistol.

I won't personally shoot anything heavier than 130 grainers through my Lugers, as they were never timed for such heavier bullets.

As to my P-38, for perfect function, for me, it's round nose hard ball bullets, only. By the way, I've never owned a P-38 or P-1 that I could really call "accurate".

I hope this helps.


Sieger

My magazines are all new MecGar magazines, so there is no malfunction with them.