What is a 06/20

[DUNG BUZZARD]

I bought a DWM from a dealer supposedly a 1906.
After receiving it. There's a "N" suffix.
So What is a 06/20 #4236 N
sunburst crown N . BP barrel proof.
Any info for a new collector would be appreciated.

[ithacaartist]

Welcome to the forum, John.

Pics of your new baby will help get answers to your questions. Thorough perusal of the FAQ section will answer many of your potential questions.

DWM made Swiss contract Lugers in the beginning. Rather than suffer the curtailed availability of pistols due to WWI, I believe the Swiss worked out a licensing deal to produce their own at their Bern facility. Initially, they were assembled from DWM parts sent there, until they had made their own tooling and could produce their own, around 1929.

Your letter-suffixed serial number is the military style as opposed to the early commercial 5-digit numbers which were discontinued in favor of the former in the early 20s (1921?). Those who know more--or better-- info will likely respond... BTW, no reasonable need to be shy about the full serial number.

[DUNG BUZZARD]

I will work on some pictures.

[Ron Wood]

The Swiss started producing their own Lugers with their own tooling in 1918. Due to an error on the part of an early author the date was thought to be 1924 so folks still refer to them as 06/24 (a designation that I and others are still trying to get rid of). To decrease production costs the Swiss redesigned the Luger in 1929.

[DUNG BUZZARD]

[DUNG BUZZARD]

[Ron Wood]

Yep, that is a 06/20 all right. Made by BKIW (formerly DWM) post-war for commercial sales in Switzerland. It is the Swiss variant of the "Alphabet Commercial".
Ron

[DUNG BUZZARD]

And I thought I was dealing with reputable dealer. Whom I've dealt with many times I guess sometimes money is worth more than reputation.
He listed it as a 1906 Ser # 4236 NO "N".
I even got a 1907 holster ?

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The Swiss started producing their own Lugers with their own tooling in 1918. Due to an error on the part of an early author the date was thought to be 1924 so folks still refer to them as 06/24 (a designation that I and others are still trying to get rid of). To decrease production costs the Swiss redesigned the Luger in 1929.

Thanks Ron. The 1918 date makes much more sense regarding the wartime pinch. The re-design at the end of the twenties had me a bit confused as to when the Swiss began making their own. So even though they were, they still bought from BKIW?

[Ron Wood]

The BKIW guns were for commercial sales. Germany made all of the commercial Lugers for the Swiss. The Swiss didn't make a civilian model until the introduction of the 1929 Swiss. They only made around 2000 of those and the serial number of the civilian guns had a "P" prefix (not to be confused with the "P" and a 2-digit date marking on guns that were released from the military for private use)

[cirelaw]

Great Photography!!!

[Edward Tinker]

No excuse for whomever the dealer is, but to be honest, there is little information out there on Swiss lugers. So, they continue to use the ''old terms''.

Many dealers, young and old use older books or what they were told. There is likely more information on Swiss here on the boards that is accurate than most books.

My personal irritation is the word ''rework'' when talking about police or Simson, but usually police. Its assumed that they were all reblued and thats okay. NO, but thats one of my irritation points

Ed

[Mac Cat]

I have a similar Alphabet Swiss luger ("i" series) which has a "GERMANY" stamp above the full serial number on the front frame. Did you're have an export mark?

[DUNG BUZZARD]

Yes But I prefer not to show it. The dealer is a long time dealer importer.It will show who did this.
This guy is an importer and sells from his webb sight. I'm sure you all know him D.T.

[Ron Wood]

"Mac Cat" asked about an export mark, which would be "GERMANY". I do not see one on your gun which means the gun probably left Europe as a GI souvenir and was not an official export. What you choose not to show is an import mark.

[DUNG BUZZARD]

This might not be proper here,but what is this be worth? With a original Swiss holster.
Could I trade this for a Nice Artillery or AE ?

Anybody interested??

[cirelaw]

SWISS VALUE, I don't know how current it is~ https://www.scribd.com/document/1654...-Current-Value

[Mark1]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The Swiss started producing their own Lugers with their own tooling in 1918. Due to an error on the part of an early author the date was thought to be 1924 so folks still refer to them as 06/24 (a designation that I and others are still trying to get rid of). To decrease production costs the Swiss redesigned the Luger in 1929.

Ron,
I've found your posts on this subject very interesting over the years. A couple of questions if I may.
Is this 06/20 title for the German made Swiss commercials, a valid one ?

John Walter in his Encyclopaedia.... calls the first Swiss made guns, from 1918, "06 W+F".
The Waffenfabrik Bern then made some changes to the top surface of the breechblock and the sideplate which Walter says had the factory designation of "06/24 W+F". What's your view on that ?

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by DUNG BUZZARD

This might not be proper here,but what is this be worth? With a original Swiss holster.
Could I trade this for a Nice Artillery or AE ?

Anybody interested??

Probably not.

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by Mark1

Ron,
I've found your posts on this subject very interesting over the years. A couple of questions if I may.
Is this 06/20 title for the German made Swiss commercials, a valid one ?

John Walter in his Encyclopaedia.... calls the first Swiss made guns, from 1918, "06 W+F".
The Waffenfabrik Bern then made some changes to the top surface of the breechblock and the sideplate which Walter says had the factory designation of "06/24 W+F". What's your view on that ?

Hi Mark,

Good to hear from a Kiwi, and good questions!

“Is this 06/20 title for the German made Swiss commercials, a valid one?” – Yes and no. It is not an “official” designation but for collector taxonomy it is a pretty good descriptor for those commercial pieces made in the 1920s specifically for the Swiss market…sort of a “shorthand” reference.

I have always preferred “06 W+F” as a designation, or alternatively “06 Bern”, almost anything to get away from “06/24” for the guns that started production in 1918.

With regard to Walter’s assertion that “06/24 W+F” was a factory designation appears to be information to which only he was privy as I am unaware of any corroborating information from other sources. Now it is true that some cosmetic changes in Swiss production started to occur around 1924 in an attempt to cut production costs, some of which found their way into the 06/29. When the Swiss started production of their own guns in 1918, in addition to the bordered grips, for some reason or other they added a small step in the profile of the forward section of the breech block. The modifications explored in 1924 and ensuing years before the 06/29 were the elimination of this little breech block step and the extension of the raised portion of the side plate all the way to the top, strictly to cut down on the number of machining steps. However, these changes were not consistently applied to production subsequent to that date as pistols of the original “06 W+F” configuration continued to be produced up until the changeover to 06/29. There are some other variants that show up in this transitional period to include a couple of guns that have many of the features of the 06/29, to include the fully rounded portion of the forward receiver, but retain the “schnable” grip shape and grip safety of the 06 W+F rather than the straight grip and encircling grip safety of the 06/29. But all in all, I can see no justification for a “06/24 W+F” designation as there really was no “model” production, just some exploratory examples. This is of course my own opinion and others may disagree!

Best regards,
Ron