1920 .30 cal DWM Luger?

[r010159]

Originally Posted by JimD

I've refinished a lot of guns and the OP's looks like original finish to me. Perhaps with the lighting the aged muzzle appears blued.

I have a five digit commercial that is in almost the same condition as the OP's.

My muzzel looks to have some bluing on it, but not homigeneous like the rest of the pustol. In other words, I still can see the metal. Mine looks like the muzzles pictured by Chickenthief earlier in this thread.

Is it possible that my pistol was reblued in selective areas? Some of the SNs numerals have halos around them. The GESCIHER stamp underneath the saftey lever has metal showing within each letter. Most edges are sharp, but there are some edges that look a bit rounded. The DMW logo on top of the toggle looks to be blued over unlike the GESCIHER stamp. Perhaps selected blueing in this way can keep much of the original blueing intact. Or perhaps this is a pistol that was reworked? In this case, I would expect it to be stamped accordingly.

This is just a newbie trying to think this through. I would like this pistol to be 100% authentic. However, I still need to try to be onjective about this.

[JimD]

Without high quality close-ups it's very difficult to tell.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by r010159

Great! Now the trigger popped off with now a spring on the table. I looked at the exploded diagram on the technical part of this site and found no spring there. However, I would think that the trigger needs a spring.

It is all in the white inside of the frame and apparently inside of the slide. There is some rust part of way down the "chamber" that the magazine inserts into. Is it possible to reblue the pistol in selective areas? I heard of some bluing technique that way, but not only does it eventually rub off, it also has a peculiar smell to it.

The coil spring is placed in a housing on the backside of the trigger and rests against the frame behind the trigger. It's a bit tricky to put back into place, but not really difficult.

[mrerick]

Originally Posted by r010159

"Yes (given that it's sometimes difficult to determine this in pictures), your Luger looks like it may be refinished to me. "k" block should be in 1922 or 1923.

What do you mean the "k" block? The SN ends in "h"

Well, the DWM Alphabet Commercial series started with suffix "i" in about 1922. They were 5 digit numeric before that.

If it really is an "h" something is seriously wrong.

I did my best to interpret what I could from your photo, which is unfortunately difficult to determine detail in.

We have a graphic of the script letters that DWM used in the FAQ PDF file. Take a look.

[r010159]

Now that I have the pistol field stripped, I can now see clearly that it is a "k". My mistake. Now in the same vein as reworked oistols, I found in the "The Blue Book of Gun Values" by S.P. Fjestad, he gives a description of the 1920 model. The following is an excerpt from that description. "...since these guns were assembled using the parts of previously manufactured Lugers, including 1900-1906 mfg. with the grip safety on the frame". This does not make any sense to me unless the parts were restamped, reassembled, and then reblued.

[mrerick]

Which is why you don't rely on the Blue Book for details about Luger variations.

Much information is available in our FAQ PDF... It's free!

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

[r010159]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Which is why you don't rely on the Blue Book for details about Luger variations.

Much information is available in our FAQ PDF... It's free!

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

Yes, I now understand. I need to not take these so called "bibles" of firearms as the final word. They can get it wrong.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by r010159

Yes, I now understand. I need to not take these so called "bibles" of firearms as the final word. They can get it wrong.

"They" cause no end of confusion and argument-
"the book says".

[r010159]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

[snip]

Everything original produced until mid 1937 should be salt blued and its insides in the white as well as a polished muzzle crown. Salt bluing results in a more bluish tone, hot bluing's oxides are more black.

Mine does not have a blue tinge to it. It apoears to me to be a darker grey-black. Hot bluing process? But the inside of the frame is in the white, so not dipped in a solution. So it must have been rust blued. My concept of color is not that good unless the color is obvious. It may have blue in it, but the darker color may be masking it from my eyes. Maybe the age of the pistol is partly responsible for this? I still do not understand why my muzzle had not been polished. Were some blued and others polished?

It looks like I will have to take better, more details photos. I am going to have to think about how I am going to do this. I do have a tripod somewhere.

UPDATE: I have been carefully using a strong magnifying glass going all over the surfaces of the pistol. First, I want to mention that someone buffed this with wax to protect the finish of this firearm. Interesting. Is it normal under significant magnification for there to be little striation marks? They are horizontal for most of the surfaces, but there are exceptions. The light has to be just right to see them. Are these tooling marks that were applied well after the manufacture of the pistol? Perhaps some jacka** was overzealous in their use of that buffing wheel? Oh oh, the two proof marks are not crisp at all. One has a part of the N is very shallow and the crown definitely looks buffed in. I have seen this type of cleaning on my antique Colt Wells Fargo Pocket from about 1847,

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Dave,
I think you meant to say "rust " bluing (not salt bluing) = blue tinge.

Yep. A "Senior Moment"

[r010159]

I have a couple questions. Can a firearm be selectively reblued keeping much if the original blueing intact? I understand there is cold blueing but it eventually rubs off and it has a peculiar smell to it. If I find a proof mark that gas been compramised in some way, like a part of an "N" much more shallow than other psrts, or what looks like the lines making the crown up having a battered look to it, is this evidence that the pistol was cleaned and reblued? Still the pistol does not look reblued compared to online photos.,and the inside of the frame is in the white, just as it should be for rust blueing.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by r010159

I have a couple questions. Can a firearm be selectively reblued keeping much if the original blueing intact? I understand there is cold blueing but it eventually rubs off and it has a peculiar smell to it. If I find a proof mark that gas been compramised in some way, like a part of an "N" much more shallow than other psrts, or what looks like the lines making the crown up having a battered look to it, is this evidence that the pistol was cleaned and reblued? Still the pistol does not look reblued compared to online photos.,and the inside of the frame is in the white, just as it should be for rust blueing.

Yes,yes,yes,it is possible.

[mrerick]

Well certainly, anything like this can be done. Will it look well matched? Will you be happy with the results?

Generally this kind of thing will not improve the value of the pistol, and usually costs more than it is worth.

[r010159]

Whatever was done to it looks to be well done. Assuming it is a partial refinish, is this pistol now considered a shooter instead of a collectable? I paid allot of money for it as a collectable from a reputable dealer's private collection. So this is why I had risked the purchase. I will be carefully looking for any changes in color or shading.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by r010159

Whatever was done to it looks to be well done. Assuming it is a partial refinish, is this pistol now considered a shooter instead of a collectable? I paid allot of money for it as a collectable from a reputable dealer's private collection. So this is why I had risked the purchase. I will be carefully looking for any changes in color or shading.

You inital post was kind of odd- I "found" this luger in my safe?
Does that mean you have had it a while and are now questioning it?

If you are not happy(I would not be) and indeed bought it from a reputable dealer- I'd return it. JMHO.

[r010159]

I had allot of time on my hands, so I brought it out to carefully look at it. I then decided that I want to know more about ths particular pistol. It has been in my safe for quite some time. I trusted the dealer since I was and still am new to collecting firearms. I think he was unaware of the refinishing himself. when he sold it to me . He has one other Luger almost identical to mine that he kept in his collection.

I am now thinking there are allot of refinished firearms out there being sold as completely authentic. Some refinishing can be real difficult to detect unless the person knows what to look for. I need to understand what to look for before I purchase another firearm.

[DonVoigt]

You are correct about a "lot of refinished firearms", of all types, lugers are pretty notorious and have been "boosted" for years.

About the only way to gain the knowledge you seek about re-finishing is by handling many lugers, preferably with a mentor/guide to help you understand what you are looking for/at. JMHO.

Reading and studying these forums will help recognize "things" that are not correct, but finish is an eyes and hands on study.

[G.T.]

Hi Robert, private mail sent...... best to you, til...lat'r....GT