The M1906 Russian Contract Controversy Strikes Again

[alanint]

Why do otherwise intelligent Europeans still harbor this myth that we on this side of the pond are some sort of troglodytes?

We have saved their collective asses countless times and still they resent us?

Go figure?

[Edward Tinker]

there is some feelings that we as americans have a lot of fake stuff. I think some of the feeling is true, but also we have so many of the guns here, compared to there?

However, there are many folks who try very hard to fit in with 'us' and we need to remember that it is the minority that treat us like Albert does.

When I was on vacation from iraq to the Netherlands and was at a collectors meeting, I was treated like a member, it was very nice. Also, went to Joop's and then Vlim's houses and they treated me like a king

Ed

[Norme]

Originally Posted by alanint

Why do otherwise intelligent Europeans still harbor this myth that we on this side of the pond are some sort of troglodytes?

We have saved their collective asses countless times and still they resent us?

Go figure?

Hi Doug, Having lived on both sides of "the pond" I can assure you that this is far from true. Most Europeans respect and admire America and Americans. Albert's problem is that he can't seem to grasp that, while strong opinions are tolerated on the forum, personal attack is not. I'll miss Albert, although I seldom agree with him, his posts are always interesting and thought provoking. Regards, Norm

[alanint]

As someone who grew up in Latin America and have lived and traveled in Europe quite a bit, ( just spent the last week in Cannes at a convention) I am not trying to paint Europeans in general as being intolerant but was merely trying to single out Albert as being one of those curious exceptions who just can't seem to help themselves and always play the xenophobic card whenever others don't agree with them. Facts are facts. Just deal with this...

[Ron Wood]

I too am occasionally difficult. Please do not ban Albert. A pain in the butt will eventually go away if gently treated (a kind word helps with people and Preparation H works for the physical type). I respect Albert's opinions and his right to express them. I don't always agree with them and I think he needs to tone down his insults and exercise a bit of anger management, but I don't want him to go away...I need an easy target. I resent his constant attacks on Americans, and he is much less German than many of us. An accidental location of birth does not make one an authority or have the right to demean others. Take it with a grain of salt...I do and I assure you I am 100% American and have much deeper German roots than he. Cut him some slack. He does bring intelligence and a lively discussion to the forum (just want him to cut out the personal attack crap).

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by Norme

Secondly, it is entirely possible that no one at DWM, at that time, was familiar with either Bulgarian or Russian. Remember, this was some years before the mass Western migration of Eastern Europeans triggered by the war and the Russian revolution.

As a Jewish-owned company, DWM must have had adequate access to polyglots fleeing pogroms since the 1880s. More importantly, Western and Central Europe never suffered from linguistic ignorance. I know of no examples of European lapses comparable to the offerings of Engrish.com, which is what a Bulgarian spelling looks like to a Russian speaker.

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

I too am occasionally difficult. Please do not ban Albert. A pain in the butt will eventually go away if gently treated (a kind word helps with people and Preparation H works for the physical type). I respect Albert's opinions and his right to express them. I don't always agree with them and I think he needs to tone down his insults and exercise a bit of anger management, but I don't want him to go away...

Seconded.

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by Michael Zeleny

Seconded.

As a moderator in this forum Ron, you had the opportunity to 'deal' with Albert.

I have put up with direct attacks and some pretty forceful language on the forums and off the forums from Albert. I asked for opinions as a moderator whether he should stay, all mods should have received it.

I do not think he adds anything but disturbances to the forum, in fact Ron, you threatened to quit the forum at one time if Albert stayed.

If he would quit personally attacking me (petty from me I know, but it gets very OLD to see my name in headlines and then some smart-ass comment about my lack of intelligence or that I 'just don't understand'). This of course is in addition to attacks on other members...

Ed

[Norme]

Originally Posted by Michael Zeleny

As a Jewish-owned company, DWM must have had adequate access to polyglots fleeing pogroms since the 1880s. More importantly, Western and Central Europe never suffered from linguistic ignorance. I know of no examples of European lapses comparable to the offerings of Engrish.com, which is what a Bulgarian spelling looks like to a Russian speaker.

Dear Michael, You and I both know that the Jews fleeing the pogroms were unlikely to have been gunsmiths. If the DWM company was actively recruiting and training Jews, it's news to me. Also, both you and Albert seem to believe that the Germans of that period were incapable of making a mistake, don't forget they lost the war! Best regards, Norm

[Vlim]

If the DWM company was actively recruiting and training Jews, it's news to me.

DWM was owned by the Ludwig Loewe group until 1928. The Loewe family were Jewish, most of the DWM management and sales executives were Jewish.

Ergo: The Parabellum Pistol is basically a Jewish pistol

Anyway, you should understand that until WW1 everybody in Europe was quite free to travel around, provided he had the means to do so. Customs offices were mostly non-existant, no import/export duties or other (expensive) costs had to be paid on imports and exports. Communication channels were excellent, mail and telegrams were delivered about 4 times a day (!). So there were enough possibilities for craftsmen to migrate from one territory to another.

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by Norme

Dear Michael, You and I both know that the Jews fleeing the pogroms were unlikely to have been gunsmiths. If the DWM company was actively recruiting and training Jews, it's news to me. Also, both you and Albert seem to believe that the Germans of that period were incapable of making a mistake, don't forget they lost the war!

Norm, Jewish emigration from Russia encompassed all walks of life. Regardless of whom DWM was or wasn't recruiting, it remains that there were no Jewish monoglots between the fall of the Second Temple and the ascent of the Third International, and there was no shortage of linguistic knowledge for the Jewish-owned and largely Jewish-managed DWM to draw upon throughout its course of operations.

[sheepherder]

Regarding Albert: I view Albert as one peak of a sine curve...There will always be 2% of any given group/assemblage that are buttholes...If Albert is banned, then that eliminates his peak position on the curve, and someone else will move up and assume that position...They won't be as severe as Albert (or they would have been the peak) but that side of the curve will still have a peak...

The other side of the coin is true also...There will be Good Guys who [hopefully] will balance out the preponderance of buttholes...

In my short time here (six months or so) I have viewed Albert's posts purely as entertainment...His self-serving one-sided patronizing, pompous, and pretentious views and/or 'theories' are viewed by me as pure speculation...and as such, are moderately amusing, as well as an interesting insight into his thought processes...The scientific method does not apply in his world; Albert would be an excellent 'flat Earther'...

[Norme]

Hi Rich, Very interesting, but I'm afraid to ask which side of the x axis I'm at. Regards, Norm

[Edward Tinker]

Personally I would put Ron way ahead of me, but then you should read my 1st 'drafts' at times

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Norme

Hi Rich, Very interesting, but I'm afraid to ask which side of the x axis I'm at. Regards, Norm

Norm - It's pretty top-heavy right now; there's only 4 or 5 Forum members on the bottom side...I'm right in the middle, I think...

Did I read Ed's comment in the General Discussions Forum right??? Albert is banned at Still's Forum too??? Day-em!!!

Can't be all that many places left for him...

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Personally I would put Ron way ahead of me, but then you should read my 1st 'drafts' at times

Only with respect to number of birthdays!

[sheepherder]

I spent the last hour at Still's reading Russian Contract threads...

I didn't know Ron was a bishop...I guess that makes the rest of us pawns...

[LugerVern]

sine curve! Oh, I am not going to ask

On a serious note, does anyone have a very good picture of the barrel proof that sometimes is present on Russian Lugers?

I am talking of the "shield".

I would like to study that aspect of this gun, never really thought to before as it is commonly thought of as an early DWM marking.

But you know there are variations of this marking and it might be interesting to do a detail review. Wouldn't hurt

By the way, I have never seen this on a Bulgarian Luger but it might be present on some, can some of you with this variation look to see if its present on your guns?


thanks

Vern

[tudorbug]

My reaction to all this is, "Good grief!" But, as an engineer, careful study of Postino's sine wave leads me to recommend that Ed ban Albert and that Ed also ban himself. Equality in the sine wave will then be preserved. :-)

David

[mlmahon]

Originally Posted by tudorbug

My reaction to all this is, "Good grief!" But, as an engineer, careful study of Postino's sine wave leads me to recommend that Ed ban Albert and that Ed also ban himself. Equality in the sine wave will then be preserved. :-)

David

Now that's funny! Like I read somewhere, "The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says it's half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as big as it needs to be."

-ML