Not extracting

[F15E_WSO]

Originally Posted by mrerick

If you check our Luger FAQ document, you'll find the various recoil springs that were used in Lugers.

I also thought you might have a spring that was too powerful when I saw the pictures.

I found a "sticky" with mainspring ID and a chart, didn't see anything in the FAQs, if you could provide a link would be grateful.

Trying to ID the number of coils I have. seems like 20 but gets a bit dicey on the last turns... is it another 1/2, two halves make a whole? So 21?

RickW on another post mentioned he swapped all his mainsprings for #38 from Wolff.

Would like to ID my spring, (if able) and see what poundage it has. According to the chart on the sticky the lbs were much greater than 38 in older/original springs.

[F15E_WSO]

So about 8 weeks ago tackling getting my luger up and running again. Long saga here and another post. When "we" left the idea was get some PPU when it showed up again, try that over Fiocchi as I was not able to get gun to "lock out" on last round, and clearly would not cycle.

So while waiting I saw post with suggestion to leave gun in hold-back for a while to "compress" spring...or whatever might happen. Left gun with toggle open for about 3 weeks, saw PPU online, ordered, closed toggle in anticipation of arrival.

Went to range today, box of Fiocchi FMJ (vendor mistakenly sent me Soft Point first time, deal was send me FMJ, vendor pays shipping--seemed reasonable, figured I'd shoot it one day). So thinking I'll try the FMJ before I cycle the PPU through.....one at a time, see if Toggle locks out on final (in this case only round) in magazine. With buddy, we're taking turns. First round, toggle lock!? Second, toggle lock..!? OK, this goes on for first 6 shots. OK, 2 rounds in mag, cycles both, locks. OK!!! He and I continue to fire taking turns, 5 rounds each in the mag. Go through the entire box of 50, 3 stove-pipes(all on him? Conclusion--none).

So did the toggle locked back for 3 weeks have any effect on spring strength? Don't know.
The soft point Fiocchi I fought with originally--all gone.
FMJ Fiocchi more powerful than soft point? Unknown.
FMJ cycle better than soft point? Unknown, didn't try and cycle many soft points as I couldn't even get the toggle to lock, let alone have power to cycle.
Is PPU more powerful--will fire those next time, we'll see if they cycle better. but who knows? Seemed to cycle fine today. Is problem of 50+ yrs of inactivity solved?

Very pleased with gun function today. Don't know why all 3 stovepipes were on him. Read that "firm grip" would but more recoil energy into the toggle and enhance movement. I can see some of the physics in that but not buying it....anecdotal story, can't measure.

The top photo is 25 rds of the Luger at 7M, lower photo is 25 rds of 9mm S&W MP at 7M. I generally say that "it's a poor carpenter that blames his tools..." but in this case the Luger is clearly the better tool in these conditions. Not even close.

[DonVoigt]

Lots of questions and observations, in that post.

Yes, a firm grip is important. It does not give "more" energy, but allows what is there to work the action and not move the pistol in the hand or the arm.

Fiocchi ammo varies, period. There are purple, grey, and black box ammo from Fiocchi and soft and hard ball, it varies by lot or by year or "they" keep changing powders or something. Some works some does not.

PPU is "stronger" or hotter than most Fiocchi, and maybe is more consistent.

I don't think leaving the spring compressed changed it at all.

The Wolf spring rating and the "German" spring rating were obvoiusly done using different techniques, A 38 and a 50 lb spring are not the same- unless the measuring technique is different.

I have measured the three pack of Wolf springs before, and found them all to be essentially the same "weight"; in fact the spring labeled weakest, was stronger than the one labeled higher.

This one reason I say do not change springs unless you really need to, one does not know if a different spring will improve or make worse any particular condition. When you have handled a lot of lugers, you can tell by the strength needed to charge it, whether or not it has a strong or weak spring! Experience is the best teacher, keep on with your testing for sure.

You can measure diameters and count coils, and segregate springs for trial (and error) that way.

Whether you count 20.5 or 21 is not significant; are the ends ground flat? or left raw? this affects the over all length and coil count slightly.

Don't over think the spring - DWM could not decide which to use either. Sometimes the .30 and the 9mm were different, other times they decided the same spring was ok for either.
It ain't like flying a jet fighter.

Most of this spring "stuff" you just have to learn by doing, there is no way to explain all the interactions! JMHO.

[F15E_WSO]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Most of this spring "stuff" you just have to learn by doing, there is no way to explain all the interactions! JMHO.

Good morning DV,

Agree there are way too many variables in play here to draw any conclusions. I was happy to get to put some rounds through the gun at something better than one at a time.

I'll continue to clean and care for this pistol, it appears to be warming up to my attentions. Happy to have it, will lean towards PPU based on all inputs here. Will know more next time at the range.
CHeers

[DonVoigt]

I forgot to say that sometimes just shooting makes the pistol work better, kind of like exercise. And did I mention, keep it well oiled?

[F15E_WSO]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I forgot to say that sometimes just shooting makes the pistol work better, kind of like exercise. And did I mention, keep it well oiled?

Cycled 50 rds of PPU .30 Luger through the gun yesterday without a problem. ALL rounds ejected, cycled the next round. One point, I loaded the mag with FIVE rounds only each time for 10 events.

THe PPU did feel more "powerful" in the hand, maybe louder(?).

DV, Also to your point about "kind of like exercise" I did have pretty good luck with the Fiocchi FMJ (my last box at the time) so will buy another 50 of that to see if a "softer" touch still gets the job done. I do like shooting the gun and and any TLC I can give it to reduce stress seems like a good idea.

[rhuff]

Glad to hear that you have a functioning Luger with the PPU ammo. Now you have your base setup that functions correctly. These old Lugers are a lot of fun to take to the range when they behave themselves.