Erma .22 conversion for P 08; FIRING update post #21

[DonVoigt]

Here is my new "toy", just got it this week and have not had a chance to try it out yet.

Best I can tell from reading it dates to about 1934.

No box, but two 5rnd. magazines!

One magazine is numbered to the toggle assembly; the other to the barrel number- so I have part of two original kits.

Anyone have an empty box? Or a spare barrel nut, as it should have two?

Also shown installed in my shooter 1937 upper on my basket case
1906 lower, which is functional using "borrowed' parts from another of my Lugers.

Still need an upper for it, but did buy a 6' Navy barrel today!

[hayhugh]

You may find it necessary to remove the ejector on the receiver that you are using.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by hayhugh

You may find it necessary to remove the ejector on the receiver that you are using.

You are correct, the barrel is impossible to insert without removal
of the original ejector.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Do you have all the parts??? I seem to recall a 'centering cone' going between the nut and the muzzle...Your pic looks like it is missing (lots of thread showing)...

This is a pic of the commercial kit...I don't recall if the 'centering cone' was threaded as well as the retaining nut...

There is a parts breakdown of the wartime kit posted here somewhere too, but this was the one I knew I could find...

Yes, I have all the parts, well except one muzzle nut,
that is why more thread is showing, supposed to have two as shown in your post.

The centering busing is part of the barrel extension that goes between the barrel and the nuts. You can see it as the brass bushing on the extension in my picture.

The length of my barrel is longer than the commercial one, hence a longer extension.

The original kit is in Vol. III of Sturgess.

[hayhugh]

Part # 8903 is the part that centers part #8901 into part #8902 then the lock washer and part #8901 holds it all together.

[ithacaartist]

It may actually need these two parts for the muzzle.

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/erma22knur...trear8903.aspx

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/erma22lock...cknut8905.aspx

The ejection system on your early kit is the same as the last ones Erma made, the SE 08/2, the model Rich posted the parts diagram for. It should have a separate ejector compatible with the kit. For the kit to eject when installed and used, you'll need one of those, a modified one from the P.08, or a mag from the SE 08 kit made in between the early and /2. These mags have an extended right rear feed lip that sticks up and functions as the ejector. One of these mags in nice shape usually commands a hundred bucks or a little more, but I think it's the easiest way to deal with the situation. You may wait forever to encounter an original replacement ejector, and making one may eat up more shop time in designing the copy, making one, and tuning it to work, than is reasonable.

I have some spare muzzle nuts, but no spare locking washer, so picking both of them up from Sarco would be your best deal. I have an extra SE 08 mag. It has a streak of missing finish, due to something unknown dribbled on it in the past, which I'd pass on for $95 plus shipping in a small flat rate box. $50 insurance is automatically included, along with tracking, but if you want extra ins., add that in, too. If you're interested, give a holler!

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by hayhugh

Part # 8903 is the part that centers part #8901 into part #8902 then the lock washer and part #8901 holds it all together.

If you look at my post and the picture of my pieces,
you will see that they are of the earlier type and not made this way!

The brass taper bushing at the end of the barrel extension in my kit is what centers the barrel in the extension.

Thanks for the help, but the designs of these two are different.

[DonVoigt]

Thanks for the info on the ejector. I'll see what it takes to make one, but in the meanwhile I'll take you up on your offer on the magazine!

I'm sure I can come up with a washer, so if you an spare a "nut",
I'll get one from you too.

PM inbound

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

It may actually need these two parts for the muzzle.

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/erma22knur...trear8903.aspx

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/erma22lock...cknut8905.aspx

The ejection system on your early kit is the same as the last ones Erma made, the SE 08/2, the model Rich posted the parts diagram for. It should have a separate ejector compatible with the kit. For the kit to eject when installed and used, you'll need one of those, a modified one from the P.08, or a mag from the SE 08 kit made in between the early and /2. These mags have an extended right rear feed lip that sticks up and functions as the ejector. One of these mags in nice shape usually commands a hundred bucks or a little more, but I think it's the easiest way to deal with the situation. You may wait forever to encounter an original replacement ejector, and making one may eat up more shop time in designing the copy, making one, and tuning it to work, than is reasonable.

I have some spare muzzle nuts, but no spare locking washer, so picking both of them up from Sarco would be your best deal. I have an extra SE 08 mag. It has a streak of missing finish, due to something unknown dribbled on it in the past, which I'd pass on for $95 plus shipping in a small flat rate box. $50 insurance is automatically included, along with tracking, but if you want extra ins., add that in, too. If you're interested, give a holler!

[hayhugh]

You can use an "O" ring in place of the lock washer.

[rhuff]

I can't tell from the diagram, but is the washer a "wave" washer? If so, those are available, as I use them frequently. Just a thought.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by rhuff

I can't tell from the diagram, but is the washer a "wave" washer? If so, those are available, as I use them frequently. Just a thought.

Yes, it is a "wave washer", which will prevent the nuts from rotating once tightened, without digging into anything. They will loosen a bit when everything is heated up a little by firing; I just take up the slack by snugging again if they seem loose. They will come off harder than they went on unless you do it while the gun is still happy (warm, said the Beatles). Use non-marring tools if they are too tough to spin off by hand. Hugh is correct, in that an "O" ring will do, in a pinch.

Sarco is out of the specific original parts, but I'd think that a hardware store would have one to fit in one of those little bins. In this case, close is good enough, unless they have metric ones.

[DonVoigt]

Thanks guys for all the help, info and ideas.

But the old model works just fine as is, being substantially different from the "Modified and Improved Erma "SE 08/2" model of 1990.

While I have yet to fire it, dry cycling loads and ejects just fine.

Why-
The early sub cal adaptors eject on the "horns" of the magazine, at least that is what they are called in Sturgess' book. If you have access, it is on page-1612, where differences in the old and improved SE 08/02 are detailed. The magazine was substantially changed, and a separate ejector added.

The old kit does not use the conical nut nor the washer either, but rather a brass bushing on one end of the extension- see the picture I posted. But it does use two nuts which serve to "jam" so as to prevent unscrewing. The "end" nut is flat on one side and rounded on the other, and a little oval shaped when viewed from the side, and a little longer than the one I have in my photo, to protect the end of the insert barrel.

I will find or make another nut, best I can measure it is 8mm x 0.5 pitch, or maybe 0.75 pitch.

Will try it out Tuesday, and know for sure.

A friend of mine has an early kit in the long box with all the goodies, except the wood handled cleaning rod.

I doubt anyone has a spare for sale- but thought I'd ask. I'm going to make him one to fill up the empty space in the box. The Erma guys were so thoughtful in designing the box, they even put in a cut out to hold the original pistol ejector so it would not get lost! and the original toggle is suppose to fit in the space for the .22 toggle, as is the magazine in the magazine space.

I'll get a picture of his kit in box next time I see it, to post here.

[hayhugh]

Yes, I would like to see the box, just might want to make one up..............

[Edward Tinker]

Here are some box pictures I have collected;

[DonVoigt]

Yes, a small box seems quite do-able!

Thanks for the pictures!

[ithacaartist]

I haven't checked the Sturgess book yet, but I think after this exchange I'm clearer on the changes that happened with this kit. My main misconception was that the pre-WWII kits needed the extractor swapped out. But the place in the box is solely for the removed original extractor. The 5-shot mags in the pics didn't look particularly "horny" compared to the ones I have, which have a pronounced difference in extra height on the right rear horn. There is proof in Ed's pics that the parts you have in your kit are indeed all there.

There was an SE 08/2--well, much of one anyway--on eBay, ended yesterday. It needed a lot of parts to be complete, and I am amazed that in the face of all the effort and research and patience necessary to complete the kit it went for over $200. Sarco has some of what was needed--pin and bushing for the rear, buffer bolt, its retainer and spring, f.p. and recoil springs-- but the extractor, stationary rear block, and firing pin will be a real bear to come up with.

[DonVoigt]

Ithacartist,
I saw that auction, and couldn't believe it either. Maybe the buyer had an "old" one that he wanted to up grade??

Otherwise it would really be a search or a treasure hunt!

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Ithacartist,
I saw that auction, and couldn't believe it either. Maybe the buyer had an "old" one that he wanted to up grade??

Otherwise it would really be a search or a treasure hunt!

...or a big adventure in custom machine work!

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I saw that auction...

I saw an auction back in 09-24-2014 that sounds exactly like the one you're describing; it would not surprise me if it was the same 'kit'...Someone [Dave!] even asked me if I thought a rear piece could be made up for it, and I think I said said it was possible but expensive...I think it was described in this thread -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=33210

Complete Erma SE 08/2 'kits' have been selling for $500-$600 lately, wartime seem to be a hundred or so more.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I saw an auction back in 09-24-2014 that sounds exactly like the one you're describing; it would not surprise me if it was the same 'kit'...Someone [Dave!] even asked me if I thought a rear piece could be made up for it, and I think I said said it was possible but expensive...I think it was described in this thread -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=33210

Complete Erma SE 08/2 'kits' have been selling for $500-$600 lately, wartime seem to be a hundred or so more.

Not the same kit... The previous one has a high-tech looking mag, and you can tell in the pic that its extractor is there. My misconstruction of the extractor setups extended back at least that far...