Today's find

dnickels · 07-06-2016, 08:11 PM

I'm a bit more familiar with Walther P-38 pistols than Lugers, but I did pick up my second P08 today.

I really know NOTHING about it except it is a commercial model of some sort. It's all parts matching (mag not serialized) with all of the main parts being 5197 or 97. There really are no other marks to speak of except a small crown and N on the side of the toggle and the DWM emblem on top. The metal is not bad with just the top toggle being poor although the side plate is a little rough. There is zero original finish left except on the front toggle. The outside is just a greasy gray like an old lead pipe. The unfinished inside is not rusty but is dirty. The grips seem to be original Luger grips but the left and right side do not match in pattern. Both are very old but have no markings inside. Bore is nice just dirty. The barrel is slightly unscrewed a couple of degrees. There are no import marks, no "Germany" etc. either.

Unless this is a really valuable specimine, I really am considering rust bluing and straw bluing it back to its original glory. I have purchased some new grips, grip screws and a new DWM top toggle. It wasn't overly expensive and I figure it will make a nice display piece and occasional shooter.

These things are addictive too!

FNorm · 07-06-2016, 09:45 PM

What's the numbers and suffix letter on the front, just above the trigger guard?

FN

dnickels · 07-06-2016, 09:54 PM

I suppose its "i" but I cant make out the dot and it looks more like an "L" to me. 5197 above the i

DavidJayUden · 07-06-2016, 11:18 PM

Looks like she's been around a bit.
The right grip is definitely a repro. and I would suspect that the barrel is not original. 9mm or .30caliber?
Interesting finish. Do you think it is just worn or has it been bead blasted?
Thanks for sharing!
dju

DonVoigt · 07-07-2016, 12:31 AM

you should probably get the barrel screwed in correctly, check headspace,and test fire before doing much more work on it, JMHO.

I would get it functioning and use it as a shooter as it is.

Sergio Natali · 07-07-2016, 06:24 AM

As David said it's been around a bit; it depends on how much you've spent for it

dnickels · 07-07-2016, 09:10 AM

I paid $600 which is ok with me for a parts matching gun. I figure it has $600 worth of parts. Bore is good with sharp rifling and no pitting (just dirt).

The 9mm barrel is 5197 which matches the frame and all the other parts. I do not think its a modern barrel. The shop owner that I got the gun from said he thought someone had probably retouched the barrel finish at some point with some cold bluing.

I'm pretty sure this was not blasted or anything. The remains of the original finish are obvious, especially on the forward top toggle, under the grips, around the edges of the inside (where it was not finished). It's just worn down. The metal itself is pretty nice without much damage, pitting, etc.

Any idea when this one was made?

DonVoigt · 07-07-2016, 10:35 AM

I'm pretty sure the barrel is replaced and re-numbered, the bbl markings are not original factory, IMO.

Need more/better pictures of the frame front serial number and bottom of the barrel from straight on. The suffix is important.

Also the left chamber, right chamber, top chamber close ups; there would likely have been some markings there if military, and at least on the left if commercial. Though maybe polished away by now.

it has an "relieved' sear bar which would be from about or after 1916 IIRC.

dnickels · 07-07-2016, 10:57 AM

Here is the front (parts just slipped together for photo since I have taken it apart)

I dont see anything (anything remaining?) on the top. There is an O on the bottom left end under the toggle peg hole

Right side seems bare

Left side has an N and crown. There also seems to be a similar mark on the side of the barrel itself

Pre 1916 is cool. I can live with the barrel new or otherwise. I bought it with the idea of refinishing it.

Sergio Natali · 07-07-2016, 01:29 PM

David

As I've just written in another thread, also in your case after all the most important thing is not its value, but the fact that you like it and that you're happy with it, so congrats on your new Luger.

Ron Wood · 07-07-2016, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnickels

...Pre 1916 is cool...

Dang right!

Enjoy!

dnickels · 07-07-2016, 02:44 PM

Yeah I am not worried about value per se. Just finding out mostly what it is or started out as. I don't feel like I overpaid and the gun was not misrepresented to me. I just liked the looks. Mostly I saw it's potential as a "project" gun. It's still neat to know some history of the piece. Plus now I an say I have TWO Lugers and you can never have enough....

Geo99 · 08-26-2016, 09:54 PM

Don,

Where do you see an unrelieved sear bar? It looks cut (2nd picture down from top).

- Geo

wayne8661 · 08-26-2016, 11:35 PM

What are the numbers on the mag. If you don't mind could you post a few pics

DonVoigt · 08-27-2016, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo99

Don,

Where do you see an unrelieved sear bar? It looks cut (2nd picture down from top).

- Geo

Geo,
My bad, brain bubble from looking at the picture with the toggle locked back(up).

It is relieved, changed in the post.

Thanks.

alvin · 09-20-2016, 07:35 AM

Having one of these is OK, especially the first one. Before knowing anything, spending thousands on a pistol could be dangerous. Relatively speaking, this one is a better buy than this:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/582618499

Why? Cost vs quality ratio. But I would say there is no need to reblue it, unless you love that work and do it yourself.

DonVoigt · 09-20-2016, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Having one of these is OK, especially the first one. Before knowing anything, spending thousands on a pistol could be dangerous. Relatively speaking, this one is a better buy than this:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/582618499

Why? Cost vs quality ratio. But I would say there is no need to reblue it, unless you love that work and do it yourself.

Alvin,
posting a link to an auction is pretty much useless, the auction will disappear from the GB server in less than 1 month- then your comments will really make no sense. Better to say what it is or post pictures on the forum server. Otherwise you waste your time.

Dwight Gruber · 09-20-2016, 11:06 AM

P08 sn 5197k with an upright commercial c/N proof was made in the early-to-mid 1920s. Due to the requirements of the Treaty of Versailles, commercial P08s made between 1920-1927 were always in cal. .30 Luger, with 3 3/4 inch barrels. The long 9mm barrel on this pistol is a replacement of indeterminate provenance and year.

If you are considering this pistol as a shooter, you should consider replacing the .30 cal. recoil spring with one made for 9mm in order for the pistol to function properly. You should also obtain an aftermarket magazine instead of using the original--Mec-Gar is best.

--Dwight

07-06-2016, 08:11 PM	#1
dnickels User Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 22 Thanks: 8 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	Today's find I'm a bit more familiar with Walther P-38 pistols than Lugers, but I did pick up my second P08 today. I really know NOTHING about it except it is a commercial model of some sort. It's all parts matching (mag not serialized) with all of the main parts being 5197 or 97. There really are no other marks to speak of except a small crown and N on the side of the toggle and the DWM emblem on top. The metal is not bad with just the top toggle being poor although the side plate is a little rough. There is zero original finish left except on the front toggle. The outside is just a greasy gray like an old lead pipe. The unfinished inside is not rusty but is dirty. The grips seem to be original Luger grips but the left and right side do not match in pattern. Both are very old but have no markings inside. Bore is nice just dirty. The barrel is slightly unscrewed a couple of degrees. There are no import marks, no "Germany" etc. either. Unless this is a really valuable specimine, I really am considering rust bluing and straw bluing it back to its original glory. I have purchased some new grips, grip screws and a new DWM top toggle. It wasn't overly expensive and I figure it will make a nice display piece and occasional shooter. These things are addictive too!

07-07-2016, 12:31 AM	#5
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	you should probably get the barrel screwed in correctly, check headspace,and test fire before doing much more work on it, JMHO. I would get it functioning and use it as a shooter as it is. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-07-2016, 06:24 AM	#6
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	As David said it's been around a bit; it depends on how much you've spent for it __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

07-07-2016, 10:35 AM	#8
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	I'm pretty sure the barrel is replaced and re-numbered, the bbl markings are not original factory, IMO. Need more/better pictures of the frame front serial number and bottom of the barrel from straight on. The suffix is important. Also the left chamber, right chamber, top chamber close ups; there would likely have been some markings there if military, and at least on the left if commercial. Though maybe polished away by now. it has an "relieved' sear bar which would be from about or after 1916 IIRC. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie Last edited by DonVoigt; 08-27-2016 at 01:56 AM.

07-07-2016, 01:29 PM	#10
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	David As I've just written in another thread, also in your case after all the most important thing is not its value, but the fact that you like it and that you're happy with it, so congrats on your new Luger. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

07-06-2016, 09:45 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	What's the numbers and suffix letter on the front, just above the trigger guard? FN

07-06-2016, 09:54 PM	#3
dnickels User Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 22 Thanks: 8 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	I suppose its "i" but I cant make out the dot and it looks more like an "L" to me. 5197 above the i

07-06-2016, 11:18 PM	#4
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Looks like she's been around a bit. The right grip is definitely a repro. and I would suspect that the barrel is not original. 9mm or .30caliber? Interesting finish. Do you think it is just worn or has it been bead blasted? Thanks for sharing! dju

07-07-2016, 09:10 AM	#7
dnickels User Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 22 Thanks: 8 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	I paid $600 which is ok with me for a parts matching gun. I figure it has $600 worth of parts. Bore is good with sharp rifling and no pitting (just dirt). The 9mm barrel is 5197 which matches the frame and all the other parts. I do not think its a modern barrel. The shop owner that I got the gun from said he thought someone had probably retouched the barrel finish at some point with some cold bluing. I'm pretty sure this was not blasted or anything. The remains of the original finish are obvious, especially on the forward top toggle, under the grips, around the edges of the inside (where it was not finished). It's just worn down. The metal itself is pretty nice without much damage, pitting, etc. Any idea when this one was made?

07-07-2016, 10:57 AM	#9
dnickels User Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 22 Thanks: 8 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	Here is the front (parts just slipped together for photo since I have taken it apart) I dont see anything (anything remaining?) on the top. There is an O on the bottom left end under the toggle peg hole Right side seems bare Left side has an N and crown. There also seems to be a similar mark on the side of the barrel itself Pre 1916 is cool. I can live with the barrel new or otherwise. I bought it with the idea of refinishing it.

07-07-2016, 02:44 PM	#12
dnickels User Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 22 Thanks: 8 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	Yeah I am not worried about value per se. Just finding out mostly what it is or started out as. I don't feel like I overpaid and the gun was not misrepresented to me. I just liked the looks. Mostly I saw it's potential as a "project" gun. It's still neat to know some history of the piece. Plus now I an say I have TWO Lugers and you can never have enough....

08-26-2016, 09:54 PM	#13
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 398 Thanks: 102 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	Don, Where do you see an unrelieved sear bar? It looks cut (2nd picture down from top). - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

08-26-2016, 11:35 PM	#14
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	What are the numbers on the mag. If you don't mind could you post a few pics

09-20-2016, 07:35 AM	#16
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Having one of these is OK, especially the first one. Before knowing anything, spending thousands on a pistol could be dangerous. Relatively speaking, this one is a better buy than this: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/582618499 Why? Cost vs quality ratio. But I would say there is no need to reblue it, unless you love that work and do it yourself.

09-20-2016, 11:06 AM	#18
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	P08 sn 5197k with an upright commercial c/N proof was made in the early-to-mid 1920s. Due to the requirements of the Treaty of Versailles, commercial P08s made between 1920-1927 were always in cal. .30 Luger, with 3 3/4 inch barrels. The long 9mm barrel on this pistol is a replacement of indeterminate provenance and year. If you are considering this pistol as a shooter, you should consider replacing the .30 cal. recoil spring with one made for 9mm in order for the pistol to function properly. You should also obtain an aftermarket magazine instead of using the original--Mec-Gar is best. --Dwight

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