Halo marks

[jeb111]

Can halo marks be replicated on a refinished pistol?
Jim

[Dwight Gruber]

No, but they can be imitated. I don't think I am going to tell you how. Haloed markings are one hallmark of an original finish, and bad actors have faked marking halo in order to deceive unwary collectors out of their money.


--Dwight

[spangy]

If you had exact or very very close dies to re-strike with I believe you could.
I would try it on scrap metal first though ... you would need a steady nerve and a steady hand to try this on your pride and joy ... but then who would re-finish their pride and joy ya ???

Don't shoot the messenger ... just thinking out loud.

[Norme]

I have yet to see a fake or refinished gun with convincing halos, sometimes the faker even halos the wrong marks or numbers!
Norm

[jeb111]

I was curious if halos could be replicated after talking with a buddy about certain things to look for in a refinished pistol and the question came up about fake or replicated halos. I didn't know for sure but thought it was possible. Just how good they could be was more of what I wanted to know. Looking at Norm's photos they don't look too good.
Jim

[Norme]

Hi Jeb,
I assume you are talking about rust blued guns, mainly Imperial era up through early 1937 when chemical bluing was introduced. Marks and numbers that were applied before the rust blue finish should not show halos, those that were stamped after, should. It goes without saying that you should know the sequence of stamping and bluing of the gun or guns that interest you and this might entail considerable research, the best way to learn is by examining legitimate samples shown on Simpson's and Legacy Collectible's websites. However, if you are interested in unit marked Imperial Lugers it's a piece of cake, all unit marks were applied after the gun left the factory and all should show halos.
Norm

[4 Scale]

I agree the fake halos in Norms example are crude. But I would still suggest care in inspecting halos, I don't view halos or really any aspect of original finish as a binary issue.

I've dabbled in hobbies that include placing different finishes on various materials. IMO given the right equipment, not only could more convincing halos be created but other aspects could be faked to make refinished pieces look original. The key variables would be faker skill and time devoted, the expertise of the person inspecting and if the inspection included magnification. I enjoy fixing up shooters and have played around with some "improvements" for my own satisfaction, not to boost value for sale. I agree with Dwight's sentiment and would prefer not to describe possible approaches.

Once apon a time, I had a nice re-blued shooter. I improved it, no halo work but some other things. I sold it to a person I considered a knowledgable collector. I carefully pointed out the remaining evidence of re-blue, and my 'improvements'. My conscience was clear and he paid a shooter price. I know for a fact he later sold the pistol as original at a non-shooter price, probably to a newbie as the re-blue evidence remaining was significant. We will not do business again.

The point being Luger collectors can't be too careful. IMO the best insurance against fakes is to try to examine as many originals as possible. Magnification helps too.

[mrerick]

Part of "Luger University" is book study (buying the reference books, and actually reading them)... and part of it is actually handling genuine Lugers and examining them closely.

This is why I still attend some of the better gun shows as well as local ones. I help with fund raising for a state gun rights group, so generally attend the shows regularly and visit tables, often encountering Lugers - mostly bad mixed parts or manipulated pistols. Those dealers don't like me if they are misrepresenting the Lugers, but it's always an education.

I carry a magnifier, good light and PDF copy of the Sturgess Red book on a tablet for reference.

Always evaluate a Luger as a whole. Look at all it's characteristics, not just the halos you may encounter around one area or another.

It is possible to fake halos in a number of ways, but it's generally possible to detect that fakery. Detecting that is a combination of their appearance, and their context with the appearance of the rest of the Luger.

[cirelaw]

1906 French Contract

[pmanton]

Rust blue was mentioned in one post. Do halo marking show up only on rust blued guns?
Paul
Salome, AZ.

[mrerick]

Generally, yes. The halos should occur when a die is stamped through a rust blued surface and the surface is strained by the die pushing through the adjacent metal.